If there were no repercussions...

TB · July 05, 2015, 03:54:13 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:52:00 PM

Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others
lolno
Okay, what other value does a person have and why does it matter if whatever you esteem to be value has been lost?
Self-value is all that matters. There is no numeric scale, there's a switch. If a person wants to live, his life has value. If he doesn't, his life doesn't have value. Simple as that. Other people's opinion on the person has literally no relevance at all.
Hypothetical situation here :

If a mentally disabled man has a chronic illness that causes him to be in immense pain for the entirety of his conscious life, but due to the nature of his psyche, insists that he wants to live instead, is it better to let him remain in torment or to end his life against his will?
Definitely, definitely, definitely let him live. Choice and consent is all.
Why does what someone wants matter if literally nobody else wants that?
It doesn't fucking matter whatsoever what other people want. Your life is yours alone.

This ^
You can only truly know your own intentions. As well as you can only feel exactly what you feel.
No one else can truly know or feel how you perceive the world.

Jive Turkey · July 05, 2015, 03:55:08 PM

Hitler was just like, livin his life, man.

SecondClass · July 05, 2015, 03:55:10 PM

Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:53:00 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others
lolno
Okay, what other value does a person have and why does it matter if whatever you esteem to be value has been lost?
Self-value is all that matters. There is no numeric scale, there's a switch. If a person wants to live, his life has value. If he doesn't, his life doesn't have value. Simple as that. Other people's opinion on the person has literally no relevance at all.
Hypothetical situation here :

If a mentally disabled man has a chronic illness that causes him to be in immense pain for the entirety of his conscious life, but due to the nature of his psyche, insists that he wants to live instead, is it better to let him remain in torment or to end his life against his will?
Definitely, definitely, definitely let him live. Choice and consent is all.
Why does what someone wants matter if literally nobody else wants that?
It doesn't fucking matter whatsoever what other people want. Your life is yours alone.
The only thing that matters is impact.

Are you saying killing Osama was wrong because he wanted to live?

Osama should have been taken alive and imprisoned for life, but that obviously wasn't possible when he was surrounded by armed guards. It wasn't morally righteous to kill him, but it was certainly justifiable.

TB · July 05, 2015, 03:55:20 PM

Btw people HATE this point of view but i think I have a similar idea as Class.

eggsalad · July 05, 2015, 03:55:20 PM

Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:53:00 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others
lolno
Okay, what other value does a person have and why does it matter if whatever you esteem to be value has been lost?
Self-value is all that matters. There is no numeric scale, there's a switch. If a person wants to live, his life has value. If he doesn't, his life doesn't have value. Simple as that. Other people's opinion on the person has literally no relevance at all.
Hypothetical situation here :

If a mentally disabled man has a chronic illness that causes him to be in immense pain for the entirety of his conscious life, but due to the nature of his psyche, insists that he wants to live instead, is it better to let him remain in torment or to end his life against his will?
Definitely, definitely, definitely let him live. Choice and consent is all.
Why does what someone wants matter if literally nobody else wants that?
It doesn't fucking matter whatsoever what other people want. Your life is yours alone.
The only thing that matters is impact.

Are you saying killing Osama was wrong because he wanted to live?

That could be weighed with the value of other people's lives (and thus their own wills to survive) and the threat of leaving Osama alive could be used for a ransom from Al-Qaeda. Killing Osama would simply be the lesser evil.

Solonoid · July 05, 2015, 03:55:56 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:53:31 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others
lolno
Okay, what other value does a person have and why does it matter if whatever you esteem to be value has been lost?
Self-value is all that matters. There is no numeric scale, there's a switch. If a person wants to live, his life has value. If he doesn't, his life doesn't have value. Simple as that. Other people's opinion on the person has literally no relevance at all.
Hypothetical situation here :

If a mentally disabled man has a chronic illness that causes him to be in immense pain for the entirety of his conscious life, but due to the nature of his psyche, insists that he wants to live instead, is it better to let him remain in torment or to end his life against his will?
Definitely, definitely, definitely let him live. Choice and consent is all.
Why does what someone wants matter if literally nobody else wants that?
It doesn't fucking matter whatsoever what other people want. Your life is yours alone.
So is that to say that we should allow people who are not of sound mind to torture themselves as they wish? Should we allow schizophrenics to dismember themselves or catatonics to starve?

Observing the suffering of others is a huge negative impact on people.

I'd kill him so that nobody else had to suffer by association because of his suffering, but if he chooses to suffer in a cave somewhere and never be seen again, so be it.

SecondClass · July 05, 2015, 03:56:03 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:53:31 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:50:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:46:00 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on July 05, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others
lolno
Okay, what other value does a person have and why does it matter if whatever you esteem to be value has been lost?
Self-value is all that matters. There is no numeric scale, there's a switch. If a person wants to live, his life has value. If he doesn't, his life doesn't have value. Simple as that. Other people's opinion on the person has literally no relevance at all.
Hypothetical situation here :

If a mentally disabled man has a chronic illness that causes him to be in immense pain for the entirety of his conscious life, but due to the nature of his psyche, insists that he wants to live instead, is it better to let him remain in torment or to end his life against his will?
Definitely, definitely, definitely let him live. Choice and consent is all.
Why does what someone wants matter if literally nobody else wants that?
It doesn't fucking matter whatsoever what other people want. Your life is yours alone.
So is that to say that we should allow people who are not of sound mind to torture themselves as they wish? Should we allow schizophrenics to dismember themselves or catatonics to starve?

Absolutely. You have no right to tell someone they can't do something to their own body.

Verbatim · July 05, 2015, 04:03:45 PM

Quote from: Winy on July 05, 2015, 03:39:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 05, 2015, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:24:52 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others.
Enjoy being wrong.
What would you say determines the value in somebody's life?

Its capacity to suffer.

Elai · July 05, 2015, 04:04:21 PM

As much as I would just like people to not live anymore, it's nonetheless still an imposition to kill someone. Even if I viewed it as a mercy, it still wouldn't be justifiable.

Desty · July 05, 2015, 04:08:46 PM

WHAT THE HECK!?

Do you guys seriously think it's okay to kill a person for no reason other than a child being fed for a week? I can feed a child for a week, so maybe you can?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Solonoid · July 05, 2015, 04:09:28 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 05, 2015, 04:03:45 PM

Quote from: Winy on July 05, 2015, 03:39:42 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on July 05, 2015, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:24:52 PM
All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others.
Enjoy being wrong.
What would you say determines the value in somebody's life?
Its capacity to suffer.

And if they can't share their suffering what's the point?
There's a reason lonely people want to kill themselves.

Desty · July 05, 2015, 04:11:53 PM

Also, the guy could have people caring about him. The guy could save people.

Potential is an important factor.

also the guy could be a newborn baby that nobody cares about yet

Verbatim · July 05, 2015, 04:12:08 PM

Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 04:09:28 PM

And if they can't share their suffering what's the point?
There's a reason lonely people want to kill themselves.

There doesn't need to be a point. If something negative is happening in the universe, that's valuable, in and of itself.

eggsalad · July 05, 2015, 04:15:12 PM

Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:11:53 PM

Also, the guy could have people caring about him. The guy could save people.

Potential is an important factor.

also the guy could be a newborn baby that nobody cares about yet

bad argument
what if the guy goes on to be mega hitler
or litters

Yu · July 05, 2015, 04:15:39 PM

I would need a better reason to kill.

Desty · July 05, 2015, 04:15:50 PM

Quote from: Sᴏʟᴏɴᴏɪᴅ on July 05, 2015, 03:24:52 PM

All of the value in a person's life resides in the impact they have on others.

The value of someone in other peoples' eyes that is.

Value is subjective, and thus the only value that can be written down is yours, and other peoples'. Since you are you, what you value is more important that what others value.

Desty · July 05, 2015, 04:17:02 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 04:15:12 PM

Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:11:53 PM
Also, the guy could have people caring about him. The guy could save people.

Potential is an important factor.

also the guy could be a newborn baby that nobody cares about yet
bad argument
what if the guy goes on to be mega hitler
or litters

So? That's bad in your eyes, but to assume that it is for me? That's a leap of faith.

If the guy litters, then what? He'll be one more in so many that do.

eggsalad · July 05, 2015, 04:19:27 PM

Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:17:02 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:11:53 PM
Also, the guy could have people caring about him. The guy could save people.

Potential is an important factor.

also the guy could be a newborn baby that nobody cares about yet
bad argument
what if the guy goes on to be mega hitler
or litters
So? That's bad in your eyes, but to assume that it is for me? That's a leap of faith.

If the guy litters, then what? He'll be one more in so many that do.

Point is that it's faulty to assert that you shouldn't kill him because he could go on to save lives when I could just say that he could go on to cause deaths

Desty · July 05, 2015, 04:23:04 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 04:19:27 PM

Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: eggsalad on July 05, 2015, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: DTEDesty on July 05, 2015, 04:11:53 PM
Also, the guy could have people caring about him. The guy could save people.

Potential is an important factor.

also the guy could be a newborn baby that nobody cares about yet
bad argument
what if the guy goes on to be mega hitler
or litters
So? That's bad in your eyes, but to assume that it is for me? That's a leap of faith.

If the guy litters, then what? He'll be one more in so many that do.
Point is that it's faulty to assert that you shouldn't kill him because he could go on to save lives when I could just say that he could go on to cause deaths

I never said that.

I said that he could save lives. That's all. I never implied anything with it.