What stops perverts from getting it changed if it's so simple. If it's easy, then perverts can easily abuse it, if it's hard, then you're putting undue burden on trans people.

Well if you were educated, you would know that you need a doctor's approval to have it changed
Did you think you could go to the DMV and just have it changed or something?

And for those willing to go as far as forging it, the problem would no longer be bathroom laws
It would be individuals going out of their way to be a creep which would fall under other federal laws

And some people's ideas of out of the ordinary are not something that need to be entertained.

If a person reports a trans person, then the trans person would show ID and explain their situation
Like you said, some non trans people have this problem too

Right
Because all transmen are big hairy and buff [/quote]
Many are. This did nothing to address the point.

Many are. This did nothing to address the point.

Seeing how there are only 1OO-5OO surgeries performed every year for trans people, I doubt it
Unless you can provide some statistics on that

They've proven quite willing to enforce these policies, even on cis women.

Like I said
Statistics?

You can't always just tell whether a person who looks like a man in the bathroom is trans or pretending to be without calling the police on them. "Oh he can't be a pervert, perverts get punished" is delusional level thinking. Is that going to matter to a woman at the moment? When she's unsure whether this 200 pound bearded dude who can clearly overpower her is standing there? Is she going to care "oh well whatever he does he can be punished for it", or is she going to genuinely feel uncomfortable?

In which case she of course then contacts the police to verify this situation.

And so is how transmen are never able to use the bathroom without dealing with the police again.

With either policy, you'll never be able to completely tell who's trans and who's not
You're just trying to make it seem like droves of big hunky trans men will be pouring into the lady's room
At least with this policy, people are under the umbrella of lawful protection whereas with your policy, they are not

Unsurprisingly to no ill effects or notable patterns of crime.
But hypotheticals are of more importance than reality to those supporting these bills.

I'm sure there were no patterns of crime but now that you want to put it into writing, it will literally be in the law that there is no barrier protecting people from having their privacy violated

Really? I've seen examples where that was attempted, not once where it was held up.

Yeah because it's not in the law that people can just claim to be trans without support
And I would like to keep it that way 

It doesn't protect them. Criminal behavior is still punished. Somehow you act as if there is some magic act rapists can perform to simultaneously conduct criminal behavior while not conducting criminal behavior. If some dude goes in there and looks every woman in the eye as they leave the stall and he licks his lips, that's sexual harassment and he can get arrested. I don't understand what mental gymnastics you're pulling.

Yeah because sexual harassment is sexual harassment and you'll get arrested either way
Men can easily just deny allegations since there are no cameras in the bathroom
The point is that the law permits men to enter the bathroom under false pretenses

I really think NC is being irrational and trying to chase a boogeyman that isn't there. Out of the measly 3.8% of American citizens that identify as LGBT, only 0.3% is Trans, what are the absolute chances that you're going to walk into a restroom with someone that may not be the same birth sex as you?

Also, this REALLY belongs in Serious.

It's not about the probability or solving any glaring issue
It's about ensuring protection under the law
You don't leave a gaping legal loophole out there for people to exploit

]I don't understand why you still think I ever implied you weren't able to debate this topic because I never once said anything of the sort. I've already explained that once, did you not see? Why even try to make that point again?

My original statement was directed at no specific person. It was a general statement, ergo the reason I specifically said, "people," not, "Dissonance."

You're taking this too personally, It's pretty irrational. If you manage to spin this around as, "I'm not allowed to?" again then I'd possibly be inclined to say that it's purposefully irrational.

I'm not
I'm questioning why you're discouraging any discussion that isn't fucking end of the world shit

I was thinking these things at first, but honestly, we have a justice system for a reason. However shitty it may be, it won't allow men to enter the women's restroom and be a complete creep without punishment.

Besides, this stuff already happens. In fact, a girl I know had a man follow her into the bathroom, LOCK THE DOOR, and almost raped her. I'm sorry, but you're going to have to come up with a better argument against this law than "now rapists can rape people legally". It's just nonsensical. Rape is still illegal, stalking is stil illegal. Get a grip and let's be adults about this.

First of all rape like I said before is a bad example
No one is going to commit full on felonies in the bathroom and get away with it
Fact remains that under this law the bathroom becomes a place where it is very easy for men to enter under false pretenses

I identifie as a meme stealer

You do realize you'll have to bow when the Supreme Court eventually takes it up and more than likely rules in favor of the left.

And then you'll realize everything is literally the same because until it was made a law, no one cared.

Principle does not care about outcome

You don't get to do whatever you want because you have a victimized mindset

So go tell your shithead state legislators and various school boards to comply with Title IX

You lads are missing this gold. When Das says your state is fucking up then your state really is fucking up and needs to get their shit straight before we drop nukes on North Carolina again.

Quote from: SecondClass on May 14, 2016, 01:10:51 PM

Quote from: HERE COME DAT BOI on May 14, 2016, 01:08:14 PM

Why should NC abandon its evangelical culture

Lawmakers in NC, or any state, should subside their evangelical beliefs while at work, because there's that crazy new act called the separation of church and state.

The NC constitution actually requires elected officials to profess belief in a higher power.

So? Hypocritical and morally heinous laws are enacted and struck down constantly in the US. Religion has no impact on policy, and any lawmaker who takes his faith into account before signing bills is a terrible lawmaker and person.