Moral Dilemma

 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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I'm grinding through revision for the year and I found this story again in one of the textbooks, it seemed interesting enough to get the flood's thoughts on it.


Quote
    Heinz’s wife was dying from a particular type of cancer. Doctors said a new drug might save her. The drug had been discovered by a local chemist and the Heinz tried desperately to buy some, but the chemist was charging ten times the money it cost to make the drug and this was much more than the Heinz could afford.

    Heinz could only raise half the money, even after help from family and friends. He explained to the chemist that his wife was dying and asked if he could have the drug cheaper or pay the rest of the money later.

    The chemist refused, saying that he had discovered the drug and was going to make money from it. The husband was desperate to save his wife, so later that night he broke into the chemist’s and stole the drug.

The questions for consideration are:
1. Should Heinz have stolen the drug?
2. Would it change anything if Heinz did not love his wife?
3. What if the person dying was a stranger, would it make any difference?
4. Should the police arrest the chemist for murder if the woman died?

This was demonstrated fairly recently by some fellow jacking the price of an HIV drug through the roof after buying the rights to it cheaply, but I can't remember his name.


Coomer | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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1) No. You don't go morally bankrupt because someone else is morally bankrupt
2) Yes. Intent matters
3) Yes. Intent matters
4) No. Being a douche doesn't make you a murderer


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
1: No. The chemist is a shitbag but property rights are property rights.
2: He would have just let the old bag die then
3: Then Heinz would be even dumber
4: He is a chemist, not a medical doctor. He his under no legal obligation to provide any kind of treatment.


Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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1) no, but i would have probably done the same for my wife
2) no
3) no
4) its not murder at all so...


Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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MORAL DILEMMA:

You're standing next to a switch on a train track.
The train is currently traveling towards 5 men standing on the track(you do not know who these men are or why they are there) but if you pull the switch the train well turn and head towards a single man (again who dont know who he is or why hes there)
The men cannot hear you or the train and its assumed they will definitely be hit if the train heads down their path.

Do you pull the switch?


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.


Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations
Make a thread for them then 👌


Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations
Make a thread for them then 👌
i want to ruin yours tho


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations
Make a thread for them then 👌
i want to ruin yours tho
Then the God-Emperor will strike you down like a bernout supporter.


Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations
Make a thread for them then 👌
i want to ruin yours tho
Then the God-Emperor will strike you down like a bernout supporter.
i like the term breadline bernie better


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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As much as I love the traintrack memes, please don't bork this thread with them lads.
dammit i had like 8 more stupid fucking situations
Make a thread for them then 👌
i want to ruin yours tho
Then the God-Emperor will strike you down like a bernout supporter.
i like the term breadline bernie better
Breadline Bernie works best for referring to Sanders himself, but Bernouts are his low-energy supporters.


Coco | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I think you're thinking of Martin Shkreli, the guy that jacked his drug up from $13 to $750 per tablet.

I mean, they're 2 separate models of morality.  Kinda depends on how much that money is needed and where it goes to: I think it's morally impermissible to jack up a price like that to live a cushier life than what's necessary at the expense of a lot of lives.

I mean, aside from how obvious it'd be, I think the compromise would be to leave the money that you intended, so you don't flat-out rob the guy, and he still turns some sort of profit.


Desty | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I'm void of most morals.

Was it right to steal the drugs?
If he did it and got away with it then good job.

^
^ He can do whatever he feels like, and if succeeds then good on him
The chemist should not be charged for murder since he doesn't have to do anything, but if we're talking aout societal rules then maybe you'll want to punish him for being a detriment to society.
Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 12:42:36 PM by Desty


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Yes/No/No/No


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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I'm not giving you information to label me within one of kohlberg's stages.
A diagnosis of degeneracy requires no input from kohlberg's work tbh



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No.

No.

No, but fuck that guy.


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When life gives you lemons you push it off a cliff and steal life's identity.
1. No, since the drug "might" save her for all he knows it may make her heart explode. Too risky
2. I guess he's either a heartless prick or an opportunist waiting for her to die anyway.
3. Nah, why get involved.
4. They should sit back and enjoy the popcorn while Heinz tries to explain why he wanted to use an experimental drug which affects are unknown to save his wife.


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If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.


 
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Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 08:20:45 PM by Verbatim


 
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If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
woah, midget said something half intelligent
Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 08:37:52 PM by Verbatim


MyNameIsCharlie | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Get of my lawn
It all depends on your particular point of view. Is the basis of capitalism more important than human rights. This isn't a hypothetical scenario, this happens nearly every day. There are several organizations (I hesitate to call them companies) that knock off AIDS drugs that are sold at cost in Africa. It comes down to the same thing. Stealing another's property to save lives.

Now, where do I personally come down on this issue? It's hard. On one hand, without the drugs people die. That seems cut and dry. But, if the formulae are always stolen and the inventors not compensated, only the altruistic ones would remain. Meaning there would be far fewer of these drugs created, and even more die. 


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
If nobody can afford it then they have to cut their profit margin to make any sales.

THE FREE MARKET STRIKES AGAIN!
DAS-1
Libbies-0


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.


aREALgod | Legendary Invincible!
 
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If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
woah, midget said something half intelligent

Everything I say is intelligent


Solonoid | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I am guilty of stealing because I was hungry, and when you are married, you become as one flesh, so I would say that self preservation supercedes morals when it does not come at the cost of the preservation of others.


Solonoid | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
If nobody can afford it then they have to cut their profit margin to make any sales.

THE FREE MARKET STRIKES AGAIN!
DAS-1
Libbies-0
No, because predatorial market #2, Insurance, swoops in and buys them the drug at full price, sustaining the ridiculous cost and also forcing the couple to pay for it for the rest of their lives.


 
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
If nobody can afford it then they have to cut their profit margin to make any sales.

THE FREE MARKET STRIKES AGAIN!
DAS-1
Libbies-0
No, because predatorial market #2, Insurance, swoops in and buys them the drug at full price, sustaining the ridiculous cost and also forcing the couple to pay for it for the rest of their lives.
Insurance in its current state and medicare/medicaid is a all a government organized scam to extort more money from us, so no.


Solonoid | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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If Big Pharma is so corrupt to make prices unaffordable to those most in need of the drug, then absolutely Heinz was in the right to steal it. This scenario would have only been sweeter if Heinz also murdered the chemist for good measure.
If nobody can afford it then they have to cut their profit margin to make any sales.

THE FREE MARKET STRIKES AGAIN!
DAS-1
Libbies-0
No, because predatorial market #2, Insurance, swoops in and buys them the drug at full price, sustaining the ridiculous cost and also forcing the couple to pay for it for the rest of their lives.
Insurance in its current state and medicare/medicaid is a all a government organized scam to extort more money from us, so no.
You literally just agreed with me.