I personally went for the legion because going for the stormcloaks would mean forcing Jarl Balgruff into exile and Jarl Balgruff was nice to me and I didn't want to loose his trust!

The autism tho

But is he wrong?

Yeah lol. I met a guy on Youtube comments today that believed in the Illuminati and said that they caused Sandy Hook to take away our guns and that they made up global warming to distract us.

Quote from: Nexus on May 05, 2015, 11:23:10 PM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 05, 2015, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: Nexus on May 05, 2015, 11:13:22 PM

But is he wrong?

The Empire was right.

Ulfric was a thalmor pawn, ad the only hope The Empire has of overcoming the Thalmor is if they stick together.

More referring to this, "The thalmor are like the zionist crime syndicate thats seized america and controls it from behind the curtains."

no, not really.

The Thalmor don't really run things from behind any curtain. Everyone in politics is aware of their manipulation and the way they walk all over the Imperial government.

Jews are still bad.

Yeah lol. I met a guy on Youtube comments today that believed in the Illuminati and said that they caused Sandy Hook to take away our guns and that they made up global warming to distract us.

if i believe in the illuminati, will they deliver me from my sins

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 06, 2015, 12:09:04 AM

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 05, 2015, 11:41:31 PM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 05, 2015, 11:35:50 PM

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 05, 2015, 11:22:23 PM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 05, 2015, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: Nexus on May 05, 2015, 11:13:22 PM

But is he wrong?

The Empire was right.

Ulfric was a thalmor pawn, ad the only hope The Empire has of overcoming the Thalmor is if they stick together.

lol no

casualfag pls dont think you're a lorefag

O rly?
So you're telling me that the Aldmeri Domion was going to be toppled by a useless collection of warring factions as they were before Tiber Septim buttblasted them all into the ground?

That would require some serious divine intervention, unless of course you enjoy being under the thumb of tamrielic nazis.

hurr de he durr hur dee

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 04, 2015, 12:12:39 AM

>HUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRR MUH MULTICULTURALISM MUH ULFRIC ONLY IN IT FOR HIMSELF MUH IMPERIALS ARE TOTALLY GONNA GET PAYBACK WITHIN A GENERATION MUH UNITY HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



The most important thing, far more important than the survival of the Empire, or even mankind for that matter, is the survival of the Towers. The more weakened Talos becomes through suppression of his worship, the more Anuidic thought prevails, the more freedom the Thalmor have to travel across the continent investigating towers at will, the closer they come to undoing creation.

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 04, 2015, 12:10:19 PM

Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:39:17 AM

Literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A strong, united Empire can defend the Towers. Ulfuric is just a racist fuck creating an unstable state and disunity in the Empire, which the Thalmor want. To say any option other than siding with the Imperials is complete childish denial.

This is all based on the assumption that the Empire goes back to war with the Dominion in time, if at all, which we don't know. We don't know that Thalmor propaganda won't pacify the Empire, we don't know that the Imperial populace has the will to go back to war.

The Dominion is still reeling from Hammerfell. Right now bad blood leaves them cut off from the Empire, but they are the ONLY entity standing up to the Dominion. An independent Skyrim is almost sure to cooperate with and provide aid to Hammerfell. Hammerfell+Skyrim > an impotent and corrupted Cyrodil.

What matters most of all though is protecting Talos. Talos is the only Tower the Thalmor cannot physically destroy. Instead, they destroy him by eliminating his worship. The Stormcloaks can ensure the worship of Talos remains widespread in Skyrim, while we really have no way of telling how prevalent it is among Imperials.

This is all only assuming that the Empire won't eventually... strike back.
You can't assume that a thalmor asset, however uncooperative, would wage open war on the Aldmeri dominion. More likely than not, he would sit idly forever on his nord ass, drinking mead and laughing at the sore imperials, not doing anything to help.

There are other powers that would intervene beforehand, but a unified Tamriel is the only mortal force that would overcome them other than exterraneous intervention by Atmora.

nigga why are so many retards convinced Ulfric being considered an "asset" means he's a sleeper agent or something

he's considered an asset because his civil war is bad for the Empire, and thus good for them. Uncooperative because, nigga, he's not willing to cooperate with the Thalmor.

unified tamriel doesn't mean jack shit anymore. The Empire lost Hammerfell which is just as important to it's war machine as Skyrim is. That break will not be mended. Now Hammerfell is the only nation standing up to the Dominion. The Empire is not going to provide aid to Hammerfell, for obvious reasons. There will be no cooperation at all between the two.

An independant Skyrim, in need of friends, would undoubtedly turn immediately to its Southwestern neighbor. Two independent nations cooperating militarily > the Empire sitting around while the Thalmor buy off more and more politicians and undermine them from within. Hammerfell and Skyrim, united, are a force greater than Cyrodil and High Rock, and are actually willing to take action against the Dominion.

You also fail to realize that just because mankind does not fight united under the Imperial banner, does not mean it won't be united against the Dominion. If a new war were to break out between the Dominion and the two greatest warrior cultures in Tamriel, it would behoove Cyrodil to go to war as well. Mankind doesn't need the Empire anymore. Even Talos himself has suggested this- http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Wulf

The Empire is sitting around while Thalmor wizards are free to creep throughout their territory and investigate the Towers. Every day Thalmor agents are able to spend in Imperial territory, they get closer to destroying the last of the Towers and unmaking the world.

The solution to the Thalmor problem is not one of military strategy, but of metaphysics. The best way to defeat the Thalmor is to prevent the destructon of the Towers. Talos himself being a Tower, his worship MUST be preserved at all costs.

I never said he was a sleeper agent, and do you seriously believe that those wretches are going to be able to unravel mundus without Akatosh intervening?

The fools think that just because they destroy the world they can become gods, purely because they would no longer be bound to the mortal plane that 'steals their true form'. Akatosh has had qualms intervening in the past, whether directly or indirectly, and would certainly have no problem crushing the thalmor if they came too close to victory.

It would be more likely for him to let the deadric princes run loose upon the face of mundus just to destroy mortalkind, than for him to really allow them to do this.

Not to mention Psidjic intervention, which is trivial in comparison, but pointed nonetheless.

Skyrim is in no position, no matter which side of the conflict prevails, to take up arms against the thalmor.

How can I be so certain?
Because there has to be concrete resolution to the plot in order for there to be a sequel.
Therefore, Ulfric, who did cooperate with the Thalmor, to the point that he believed he had some responsibility in the fall of the Imperial City, and decided to take up arms against the Empire later, (which doesn't help his position of "not their pawn") will not aide hammerfell.

In the end, the side you choose does not alter Tamriel's destiny, and therefore, there is no water being held in the argument that Skyrim could unite with Hammerfell, because they will not, only that I have done my best effort to preserve the Empire in hopes that they will lash out at the Aldmeri Domion, because regardless of they resolution, they still may. Essentially you have the choice between arming the Empire, or letting the nords sit on their asses and not touch the conflict.

So Door became so burned out arguing about real world issues that he is now arguing about issues in a fictional world.

ITT: Door forgot that video games are all like Mass Effect 3 and your choices don't matter.

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 06, 2015, 01:03:27 AM

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 06, 2015, 12:24:17 AM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 06, 2015, 12:09:04 AM

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 05, 2015, 11:41:31 PM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 05, 2015, 11:35:50 PM

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 05, 2015, 11:22:23 PM

Quote from: Soʟoɴoɪᴅ on May 05, 2015, 11:16:57 PM

Quote from: Nexus on May 05, 2015, 11:13:22 PM

But is he wrong?

The Empire was right.

Ulfric was a thalmor pawn, ad the only hope The Empire has of overcoming the Thalmor is if they stick together.

lol no

casualfag pls dont think you're a lorefag

O rly?
So you're telling me that the Aldmeri Domion was going to be toppled by a useless collection of warring factions as they were before Tiber Septim buttblasted them all into the ground?

That would require some serious divine intervention, unless of course you enjoy being under the thumb of tamrielic nazis.

hurr de he durr hur dee

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 04, 2015, 12:12:39 AM

>HUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRR MUH MULTICULTURALISM MUH ULFRIC ONLY IN IT FOR HIMSELF MUH IMPERIALS ARE TOTALLY GONNA GET PAYBACK WITHIN A GENERATION MUH UNITY HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR



The most important thing, far more important than the survival of the Empire, or even mankind for that matter, is the survival of the Towers. The more weakened Talos becomes through suppression of his worship, the more Anuidic thought prevails, the more freedom the Thalmor have to travel across the continent investigating towers at will, the closer they come to undoing creation.

Quote from: Arm The Mob on May 04, 2015, 12:10:19 PM

Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:39:17 AM

Literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. A strong, united Empire can defend the Towers. Ulfuric is just a racist fuck creating an unstable state and disunity in the Empire, which the Thalmor want. To say any option other than siding with the Imperials is complete childish denial.

This is all based on the assumption that the Empire goes back to war with the Dominion in time, if at all, which we don't know. We don't know that Thalmor propaganda won't pacify the Empire, we don't know that the Imperial populace has the will to go back to war.

The Dominion is still reeling from Hammerfell. Right now bad blood leaves them cut off from the Empire, but they are the ONLY entity standing up to the Dominion. An independent Skyrim is almost sure to cooperate with and provide aid to Hammerfell. Hammerfell+Skyrim > an impotent and corrupted Cyrodil.

What matters most of all though is protecting Talos. Talos is the only Tower the Thalmor cannot physically destroy. Instead, they destroy him by eliminating his worship. The Stormcloaks can ensure the worship of Talos remains widespread in Skyrim, while we really have no way of telling how prevalent it is among Imperials.

This is all only assuming that the Empire won't eventually... strike back.
You can't assume that a thalmor asset, however uncooperative, would wage open war on the Aldmeri dominion. More likely than not, he would sit idly forever on his nord ass, drinking mead and laughing at the sore imperials, not doing anything to help.

There are other powers that would intervene beforehand, but a unified Tamriel is the only mortal force that would overcome them other than exterraneous intervention by Atmora.

nigga why are so many retards convinced Ulfric being considered an "asset" means he's a sleeper agent or something

he's considered an asset because his civil war is bad for the Empire, and thus good for them. Uncooperative because, nigga, he's not willing to cooperate with the Thalmor.

unified tamriel doesn't mean jack shit anymore. The Empire lost Hammerfell which is just as important to it's war machine as Skyrim is. That break will not be mended. Now Hammerfell is the only nation standing up to the Dominion. The Empire is not going to provide aid to Hammerfell, for obvious reasons. There will be no cooperation at all between the two.

An independant Skyrim, in need of friends, would undoubtedly turn immediately to its Southwestern neighbor. Two independent nations cooperating militarily > the Empire sitting around while the Thalmor buy off more and more politicians and undermine them from within. Hammerfell and Skyrim, united, are a force greater than Cyrodil and High Rock, and are actually willing to take action against the Dominion.

You also fail to realize that just because mankind does not fight united under the Imperial banner, does not mean it won't be united against the Dominion. If a new war were to break out between the Dominion and the two greatest warrior cultures in Tamriel, it would behoove Cyrodil to go to war as well. Mankind doesn't need the Empire anymore. Even Talos himself has suggested this- http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Wulf

The Empire is sitting around while Thalmor wizards are free to creep throughout their territory and investigate the Towers. Every day Thalmor agents are able to spend in Imperial territory, they get closer to destroying the last of the Towers and unmaking the world.

The solution to the Thalmor problem is not one of military strategy, but of metaphysics. The best way to defeat the Thalmor is to prevent the destructon of the Towers. Talos himself being a Tower, his worship MUST be preserved at all costs.

I never said he was a sleeper agent, and do you seriously believe that those wretches are going to be able to unravel mundus without Akatosh intervening?

Akatosh can't do shit nigga. Besides, Akatosh is the most Anu-oriented being out there. Akatosh/Auriel/Aka-tusk was the one who, along with Trinimac, turned on Lorkhan after he tricked them into creating the Mundus. Akatosh would have no problem with this, I think, being a subgradient of Anu.

Quote

The fools think that just because they destroy the world they can become gods, purely because they would no longer be bound to the mortal plane that 'steals their true form'. Akatosh has had qualms intervening in the past, whether directly or indirectly, and would certainly have no problem crushing the thalmor if they came too close to victory.

If you can rely on Akatosh intervening (which he can't because Akatosh and the other Divines are weak as fuck), there's no point in even worrying about the Thalmor threat.

Quote

It would be more likely for him to let the deadric princes run loose upon the face of mundus just to destroy mortalkind, than for him to really allow them to do this.

He already let that happen a few times.

Quote

Not to mention Psidjic intervention, which is trivial in comparison, but pointed nonetheless.

Psijics aren't an army, dude.

Quote

Skyrim is in no position, no matter which side of the conflict prevails, to take up arms against the thalmor.

No, but it is certainly in a position to drive them out of Skyrim and help Hammerfell stay strong.

Quote

How can I be so certain?
Because there has to be concrete resolution to the plot in order for there to be a sequel.
Therefore, Ulfric, who did cooperate with the Thalmor, to the point that he believed he had some responsibility in the fall of the Imperial City, and decided to take up arms against the Empire later, (which doesn't help his position of "not their pawn") will not aide hammerfell.

Ulfric who was so hostile to the Thalmor that he threatens to leave the negotiating table if Elenwyn is allowed to stay, is secretly a Thalmor spy, yes.

He was imprisoned and tortured, just like everyone else of note captured by the Thalmor.

Ulfric's decision to turn on the Empire was based on his betrayal after the Markarth Incident, not his capture during the war.

Quote

In the end, the side you choose does not alter Tamriel's destiny, and therefore, there is no water being held in the argument that Skyrim could unite with Hammerfell, because they will not, only that I have done my best effort to preserve the Empire in hopes that they will lash out at the Aldmeri Domion, because regardless of they resolution, they still may. Essentially you have the choice between arming the Empire, or letting the nords sit on their asses and not touch the conflict.

The fuck is this incoherent bullshit.

The Empire is the one sitting on its ass. There is no real reason to believe the Empire's will to fight will not die with the generation that lost the war, while the Dominion veterans stay youthful.

If anyone is actually willing to take direct action against the Thalmor, it's probably the guy who they tortured and had imprisoned after freeing Markarth from the Forsworn.

NONE OF THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE, AND NONE OF THE NONSCRIPTED ACTIONS YOU PERFORMED IN TESV HAVE ANY IMPACT ON THE CONTINUED LORE.

With that out of the way, if it were up to me, I would rather arm the empire for when they get around to standing up to the Thalmor, than be certain that Skyrim would never do anything at all.

The fact is, because these actions you have taken cannot impact the greater lore, Skyrim WILL NOT side with hammerfell, but instead sit on their asses.

Now, what we have discounted is the significance of the Eye of Magnus. IMO, Saarthal's Crypts were the Cave that powers Snow Throat, and the Eye was the literal power source, and the Psidjic holding onto it are preventing the Altmer from deactivating the Snow Tower.

My point about the Psidjic was not that they could fight the altmer, rather that they could make their goals unachievable.

And you seem insistent that I believe Ulfric is a Thalmor spy, which he is not, he is simply their bitch, on a leash he doesn't even know he is on.

The only two outcomes are:

The Empire was weakened by the civil war, and before the next game many provinces have seceded, Skyrim being one of them (though not because of Ulfric). These independent nations strike back.

or

The Empire has retained Skyrim, seeing as even if you play Stormcloack they never actually secede, and they collectively strike back against the Thalmor.

And I don't believe you are right about Akatosh's stance on mundus.
He clearly protects it, though Lorkhan did have to be punished for his shenanigans.

Every time mundus is threatened, the divines intervene, through a godly avatar, or a mythical godzilla jesus.