Total Members Voted: 32
Quote from: DAS "كافر" B00T on May 31, 2015, 07:00:17 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 06:44:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on May 31, 2015, 06:19:29 PMAt the end of the day, preservation of humanity is all that matters.And your logical basis for this belief would be?It's kind of ingrained into the very fabric of our being...Trying to find logical reasoning for either the preservation or extermination of humanity is ultimately pointless."Ingrained into the fabric of our thinking" is not a logical defense. You're appealing entirely to emotion: "I feel this way, and my feelings are never wrong".
Quote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 06:44:09 PMQuote from: SecondClass on May 31, 2015, 06:19:29 PMAt the end of the day, preservation of humanity is all that matters.And your logical basis for this belief would be?It's kind of ingrained into the very fabric of our being...Trying to find logical reasoning for either the preservation or extermination of humanity is ultimately pointless.
Quote from: SecondClass on May 31, 2015, 06:19:29 PMAt the end of the day, preservation of humanity is all that matters.And your logical basis for this belief would be?
At the end of the day, preservation of humanity is all that matters.
Trying to find logical reasoning for either the preservation or extermination of humanity is ultimately pointless.
Quote from: Lemön on May 31, 2015, 08:38:50 PMwhat gives you the right to kill people who don't want to die?Here's a better question:What gives you the right to give birth to people who may not want to be born?
what gives you the right to kill people who don't want to die?
Yes but to you we're all suffering, and death is ending that....soooo
an unborn/newborn/baby doesn't have the capability to think like that. when they grow older and decide they don't want to live, then they don't have to.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:10:33 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 05:05:28 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.Sorry if it came across like that, it just appears that many people did not read it.The protein argument is really so trivial considering you can get all the protein you need from plant foods without even trying. So no, "hunting for protein" is in no way a meaningful purpose any more than hunting for a trophy is.But, perhaps you're trolling again.Yeah no, plant foods such as nuts and seeds are a horribly inefficient source of protein. They're not complete proteins, and lack essential amino acids necessary for dietary needs.You can go through all kinds of mental gymnastics and accuse me of trolling all you want, but it doesn't make you any more correct.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 05:05:28 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.Sorry if it came across like that, it just appears that many people did not read it.The protein argument is really so trivial considering you can get all the protein you need from plant foods without even trying. So no, "hunting for protein" is in no way a meaningful purpose any more than hunting for a trophy is.But, perhaps you're trolling again.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.
Hunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).
Murder =/= killing
An Ethiopian has the potential to live a good life.
You can end your life, if you choose.
an unborn/newborn/baby doesn't have the capability to think like that.
when they grow older and decide they don't want to live, then they don't have to.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 07:25:11 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:10:33 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 05:05:28 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.Sorry if it came across like that, it just appears that many people did not read it.The protein argument is really so trivial considering you can get all the protein you need from plant foods without even trying. So no, "hunting for protein" is in no way a meaningful purpose any more than hunting for a trophy is.But, perhaps you're trolling again.Yeah no, plant foods such as nuts and seeds are a horribly inefficient source of protein. They're not complete proteins, and lack essential amino acids necessary for dietary needs.You can go through all kinds of mental gymnastics and accuse me of trolling all you want, but it doesn't make you any more correct.Getting a complete amino profile through grains, legumes, greens and fruit is remarkably easy. To claim otherwise demonstrates a lack of nutritional knowledge. I recommend reading the following article:http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/protein
Quote from: Batch on May 31, 2015, 08:39:12 PMYes but to you we're all suffering, and death is ending that....soooo...So what? I've never actually said that, by the way. Some people aren't suffering. But that's not the point. If you enjoy your life, I don't care. Your personal enjoyment does not outweigh all the suffering. You aren't worth the Holocaust, you're not worth the slave trade, you're not worth cancer, you're not worth a hangnail on a treesloth.
Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 31, 2015, 08:20:34 PMKilling them with as little to no pain posible to eat or use as materials is not wrong.Would you be okay if someone killed you with "little to no pain posible" and then ate you?
Killing them with as little to no pain posible to eat or use as materials is not wrong.
Even if you had the legal right, you'd have to probably jump through a bunch of hoops, when it should be as simple as walking into a hospital and asking to be put down. Without question. You can't do that.
Quote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 08:47:03 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 07:25:11 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:10:33 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 05:05:28 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.Sorry if it came across like that, it just appears that many people did not read it.The protein argument is really so trivial considering you can get all the protein you need from plant foods without even trying. So no, "hunting for protein" is in no way a meaningful purpose any more than hunting for a trophy is.But, perhaps you're trolling again.Yeah no, plant foods such as nuts and seeds are a horribly inefficient source of protein. They're not complete proteins, and lack essential amino acids necessary for dietary needs.You can go through all kinds of mental gymnastics and accuse me of trolling all you want, but it doesn't make you any more correct.Getting a complete amino profile through grains, legumes, greens and fruit is remarkably easy. To claim otherwise demonstrates a lack of nutritional knowledge. I recommend reading the following article:http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/proteinAnd I recommend you refer me to a non partisan source next time. Veganhealth.org? You can do better than that.
Quote from: Lemön on May 31, 2015, 08:45:35 PMan unborn/newborn/baby doesn't have the capability to think like that.Which only makes it worse to impose life on them.Quotewhen they grow older and decide they don't want to live, then they don't have to.So you're going to force kids through that hassle just to kill themselves. Sick fuck.
It's not a hassle if they lack the capability to think that way
Now this I obviously agree with. No one has the obligation to live, but our species would die if no one chose to have children on the off chance that they would be living a terrible life.
What makes you think I care? It's my life, I'm the most important thing in the world to me.
You think too much in the negative, bad things happen in life, but so do the good.
If we keep the planet safe we keep the animals safe,
Yes, it is. Lacking the capacity and legal right to make your own informed choices for yourself until you're eighteen years old sounds like the biggest hassle ever.
what puzzles my understanding of the philosophy is if antinatalists are prepared to quantify all sentient existence into periods of suffering and happiness, why not strive towards an end goal of strictly happiness instead of wiping away the two options?
Quote from: Verbatim on May 31, 2015, 08:54:57 PMYes, it is. Lacking the capacity and legal right to make your own informed choices for yourself until you're eighteen years old sounds like the biggest hassle ever.You can't make an informed choice on whether you wanted to be born until you're informed, which would require you to be born.
Oh, this is an anti-natalism thread now? How did that happen?
Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on May 31, 2015, 08:50:12 PMIf we keep the planet safe we keep the animals safe,Torturing and killing animals for food is probably the opposite of keeping them safe.
Quote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 08:48:43 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 08:47:03 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 07:25:11 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:10:33 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 05:05:28 PMQuote from: Pendulate on May 31, 2015, 05:02:08 PMQuote from: Madman Mordo on May 31, 2015, 11:02:19 AMHunting for sustenance is less morally reprehensible because there is a meaningful purpose besides just perverse entertainment. It's a necessary facet of the animal kingdom as well as maintaining ecosystems. I thought this was obvious.Protein is also an essential part of our diet, and meat is a direct source for that. (And yeah I'm aware you can obtain protein from nuts etc but it's hardly as viable as meat is).Did you read the OP?The idea that hunting for food has a "meaningful purpose" breaks down outside of extreme survival situations.Hunting for sport can maintain ecosystems, too.Exactly how does it? Like I said, meat and protein is an essential component of our diet, so your " extreme survival situation" analogy doesn't really hold up.I'd also appreciate you dropping the sanctimonious tone, thanks.Sorry if it came across like that, it just appears that many people did not read it.The protein argument is really so trivial considering you can get all the protein you need from plant foods without even trying. So no, "hunting for protein" is in no way a meaningful purpose any more than hunting for a trophy is.But, perhaps you're trolling again.Yeah no, plant foods such as nuts and seeds are a horribly inefficient source of protein. They're not complete proteins, and lack essential amino acids necessary for dietary needs.You can go through all kinds of mental gymnastics and accuse me of trolling all you want, but it doesn't make you any more correct.Getting a complete amino profile through grains, legumes, greens and fruit is remarkably easy. To claim otherwise demonstrates a lack of nutritional knowledge. I recommend reading the following article:http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/proteinAnd I recommend you refer me to a non partisan source next time. Veganhealth.org? You can do better than that.I recommend you read the article before forming an irrational opinion.I hope you're trolling, because I thought you were better than that.
did you miss the 72 billion times that I made a point about painless euthenisation
I have. All it tells me is the various kinds of dietary contortions vegans have to go through just to maintain a serviceable supply of nutrients you could just as easily and more efficiently have obtained from meat.
Poll
Is there a difference between hunting for sport and hunting for food?