Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 01, 2018, 10:10:11 AM

Quote from: Eli on April 28, 2018, 02:56:25 PM

I don't understand how the ending was "gutsy."

you're pretty much alone on that

Erm, not really.

Probably about 90% of the characters that died have confirmed sequels in the pipeline. The original Avengers remained untouched. You can pretty much see the Deus Ex Machina coming from a mile away.

So it's a legitimate opinion to have, and I too share it.

i choose to evaluate every film i see in a vacuum

Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 01, 2018, 01:09:33 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 01, 2018, 12:20:09 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 01, 2018, 11:43:10 AM

Quote from: Mordo on May 01, 2018, 11:38:17 AM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 01, 2018, 10:10:11 AM

Quote from: Eli on April 28, 2018, 02:56:25 PM

I don't understand how the ending was "gutsy."

you're pretty much alone on that

Erm, not really.

Probably about 90% of the characters that died have confirmed sequels in the pipeline. The original Avengers remained untouched. You can pretty much see the Deus Ex Machina coming from a mile away.

So it's a legitimate opinion to have, and I too share it.

i choose to evaluate every film i see in a vacuum

YouTube

That's the type of person who shares your opinion

pedophile

Quote from: Eli on April 28, 2018, 02:56:25 PM

I don't understand how the ending was "gutsy."

you're pretty much alone on that

not at all

we all knew going into the film it would end on a dark note, as all 2 part stories do

my expectations were fulfilled

Quote from: Eli on May 01, 2018, 02:31:45 PM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 01, 2018, 10:10:11 AM

Quote from: Eli on April 28, 2018, 02:56:25 PM

I don't understand how the ending was "gutsy."

you're pretty much alone on that

not at all

we all knew going into the film it would end on a dark note, as all 2 part stories do

my expectations were fulfilled

in a franchise where only one who-gives-a-fuck character died in almost twenty movies, killing just one major character would've been a dark note to end on by that standard

they went further than could be reasonably expected

expecting more than one or maybe two characters to die wouldn't be reasonable, let alone having the big bad win in the end

an empire strikes back style ending where the main characters are at their lowest point, but the war isn't necessarily lost, is the only reasonable expectation BASED on how the movies have conditioned us so far

sure you can talk about how obvious it is that it'll be reverted in the next movie but that doesn't actually have any bearing on the movie that currently exists right now on may 1st 2018

i just don't agree. it would be an entirely different story if this film didn't establish that you can bring people back to life, but it did, and that removes any impact the direction could have had. there was no guarantee that Luke would win in Ep 6 based on Ep 5, but there is with IW, because despite Peter Quill and Peter Parker dying, GOTG3 and SM2 already in pre-production.

you can say you wish to experience each film in a vacuum, which is fine, but that's not the intention of the creators and expecting others to see it that way is silly.

I feel like the Walking Dead and Game of Thrones mindset has really affected how people judge comic movies. Why do characters have to die for there to be stakes? It's not like the characters have remained static throughout the films.

because that's what the movies are all about--it's good vs. evil, and there's no better way to introduce stakes than to just kill someone off, because it takes another piece off the chessboard, and that kinda inherently makes the game more interesting

there's just something dramatically pleasing about the finality of a character's death in ways that simply wounding them or taking away their weapons can't replicate

this character you've seen triumph in the past several times is now gone, so you're left wondering how the heroes are going to carry on without them

the avengers "splintering off" in civil war doesn't have nearly the same effect, because surprise surprise, they all just wound up teaming back up again anyways, and nobody was expecting (or wanting to see) anything else happen

cap and thor losing their signature weapons didn't matter because they just got new biggerer and bettererer ones anyway

killing heroes is the only real way to have stakes in a story as ultimately simple as a comic book story, because it's the easiest, most classic/tried-and-true, and most dramatically satisfying way to demonstrate that these godlike figures we call superheroes (whom we've been following for 10 years) aren't unstoppable, because the norm up until now has been that it doesn't matter how badly someone gets beat up in these movies--they will ALWAYS pull a rabbit out of their hat somehow

Every scene with thanos was amazing, what a great actor.

LMAO

Mark Ruffalo is so fucking stupid holy shit

actually fuck Good Morning America more than anything on that one

they could've cut that part out, but they didn't

Quote from: Eli on May 04, 2018, 10:40:20 AM

LMAO

Mark Ruffalo is so fucking stupid holy shit

...un fucking believable

it was stupid enough when he said "like every other marvel movie it doesn't end well" and i thought that was gonna be the end of the video

how any one of us avoided seeing that for the year long this has been uploaded is pretty incredible though--good guy youtube algorithm?

no lots of people saw it but i think people in general are just getting more sensitive about spoilers so theyre just not perpetuating them anymore

a lot of people are starting to abstain from trailers and interviews and muting key words on social media

it was pretty cool seeing all the different characters interacting with one another along with the banter. but sometimes the funny bits did feel a little out of place. and eli is right about the ending. its not that gutsy knowing that anyone can be brought back with the gauntlet. but overall the movie was great tho. you can tell they put a lot more effort on this film and it doesnt feel like a cookie cutter super hero movie.

also, where the fuck is adam warlock?

It's weird to see you ridicule shows like TWD and GoT as overly-reliant on main character deaths to drive the plot, and then say that the MCU does and/or should do the same thing, rather than be glad that it actually doesn't.

well, my problems with TWD and GoT are plentiful and go well-beyond just how they execute their deaths, but i never said the MCU should treat death just like either of those shows, because that would be going from one extreme (no one ever dies EVER) over to the opposite extreme (people die constantly for no reason), when what i'm asking for is a middle ground

"good guys survive, bad guys die" has been THE formula for the past 10 years since the beginning of the MCU, and the problem with formulaic superhero movies is that all tension is lost when you realize that they all end tend to end the exact same way, because it starts to feel like they aren't even CAPABLE of being killed off for cynical corporate reasons which reside outside of the film's narrative

which is why it's so incredibly refreshing for infinity war to do something different, because suddenly, there's a character who's actually powerful enough to take on these seemingly invincible people and introduce real, palpable consequence to the story

the problem i see with TWD and GoT is that they don't seem to have any discernible method for who and how they kill their characters--it feels random and arbitrary, like a soap opera, which, sure, adds tension in the laziest and most superficial way, but it's unearned and there's no lesson, message, or anything to take way from that death other than "oh no, my favorite character died for basically no reason, hopefully he actually lived somehow"

or my favorite, "hahaha finally that stupid bitch is dead, i'm so glad they finally killed her off she was so annoying"

whereas gamora's death feels a lot more earned imo because there was a lot of foreshadowing and emotional build-up towards it, so that when it finally happened, it may not have been what you wanted see, but since it rhymes with the last phrase in the quatrain, it feels more like poetry than it does drama for the sake of drama

i'm not saying the deaths in this movie were the most poetic things in history, but at least with gamora's death alone, there was a lot more going on than what is usual for marvel, because to know that thanos is willing to kill his own daughter, the only person in the universe he's been shown to give a fuck about, let's the audience know just how far he's willing to sink morally to achieve his ends, and yeah, that's some heavy shit

it's certainly heavier than WOOOOAH THAT WAS SO UNEXPECTED, THIS SHOW IS SOOOO CRAZY

loki's death at the beginning too served the same general purpose, but it happens at the beginning, which is obviously the movie's way of saying, "yeah, he's actually going to start fucking up some shit now, so be afraid"

the ones who died during thanos's purge felt more random, except for the fact that they let all the original avengers live, which is why i found these deaths a lot less emotionally satisfying, because the only thing to take away from the ordeal is "wow, thanos wasn't bullshitting" yet at the same time, by killing spider-man AND all the guardians of the galaxy, they're telegraphing their punches, and you can kinda see the corporate strings being pulled unfortunately

you don't have to keep track of marvel's itinerary to know that ALL these dudes are getting resurrected anyway, and like maverick said, if they didn't kill off the most popular and biggest moneymakers in the entire franchise, it would've been much more subtle and believable, especially when all of those characters still have arcs to finish

what they should've done is kill iron man the MOMENT thanos stabbed him, which is what everybody thought was gonna happen anyway, and it felt super earned with the music abruptly stopping the moment it happened, with tony looking defeated as fuck and everything

they also could've killed cap, because his story arc is over anyway, and even if he's still capable of fighting, he's a shell of his former self, which is kinda sad to watch (in a good way, but still in a way that tells me you don't need to keep this character alive anymore if we're going to start wiping names off the board)

so however they end up resurrecting these guys, i hope they go about it in an artistically tasteful way, because that would be totally awesome, but i'm not holding my breath

but yeah, that's what i mean by stakes i guess--there's no stakes in TWD or GoT because there comes a point (in my mind, at least) where you start realizing what the show is all about, and you stop giving a fuck as a result, because why would you emotionally invest yourself in these characters if they're just going to die a pointless and random death

i'm sure there are some deaths in those shows that are actually earned and do have some genuine poetry to them, for lack of a better term, but there's simply not enough of those moments for me to take those shows seriously

TL;DR
though i do believe that the threat of permanent character death is, for me, the primary emotional pivot of the MCU at this time, it's also important to me that the deaths don't feel arbitrary and serve some kind of narrative purpose

the last thing i want is for the MCU to start over-compensating for the lack of death, because my problem with the franchise has never been "why don't people die," per se; it's been "why don't people EVER die"

the next movie could have 0 deaths and i'll be completely okay with that, because at this point, i can only think about how they're going to handle the inevitable resurrections, which i'm not wholly against as a concept in this universe; i'm just hoping they play it smart

But IIRC, he gave Disney the permission to use his CGI likeness till they get tired of it.

that will be the downfall of the franchise for me

the problem i see with TWD and GoT is that they don't seem to have any discernible method for who and how they kill their characters--it feels random and arbitrary, like a soap opera, which, sure, adds tension in the laziest and most superficial way, but it's unearned and there's no lesson, message, or anything to take way from that death other than "oh no, my favorite character died for basically no reason, hopefully he actually lived somehow"

Not that I disagree with a lot of your post, but I don't think this is accurate. At least not when it applies to GoT anyway. I don't really have a dog in TWD fight.

Part of what makes GoT interesting is the various and seemingly insignificant choices the characters make which eventually culminate to their demise. You can trace all their decisions back for a couple seasons and see how and why they got to where they are.

Take Robb and Ned Stark for example. You can pinpoint exactly where the characters fucked up at various points in the show (disrespecting Walder Frey, trusting Littlefinger etc), which makes you think in hindsight, maybe these characters aren't as special as you initially thought.

So I don't think the show boils down to "hurr durr so randumb and subversive XD", but more like, yeah, there's legitimate consequences to the choices characters make in this universe.

Quote from: Mordo on May 06, 2018, 08:06:07 AM

Quote from: Shhhhhh on May 05, 2018, 11:19:49 AM

the problem i see with TWD and GoT is that they don't seem to have any discernible method for who and how they kill their characters--it feels random and arbitrary, like a soap opera, which, sure, adds tension in the laziest and most superficial way, but it's unearned and there's no lesson, message, or anything to take way from that death other than "oh no, my favorite character died for basically no reason, hopefully he actually lived somehow"

Not that I disagree with a lot of your post, but I don't think this is accurate. At least not when it applies to GoT anyway. I don't really have a dog in TWD fight.

Part of what makes GoT interesting is the various and seemingly insignificant choices the characters make which eventually culminate to their demise. You can trace all their decisions back for a couple seasons and see how and why they got to where they are.

Take Robb and Ned Stark for example. You can pinpoint exactly where the characters fucked up at various points in the show (disrespecting Walder Frey, trusting Littlefinger etc), which makes you think in hindsight, maybe these characters aren't as special as you initially thought.

So I don't think the show boils down to "hurr durr so randumb and subversive XD", but more like, yeah, there's legitimate consequences to the choices characters make in this universe.

I'm assuming there's the obligatory "until about season 5" comment you need to mentally add.

Ehhh there's some stuff in season 5 that you can tell they at least tried to emulate from the books, like Jon's decision to let the Wildlings through the wall, but yeah, post season 5 they just went full TV show fan service.