I lost a lot of members tonight [WITH POLL]

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 05:02:31 AM

Because I wouldn't ban someone, who said this:

The full logs are here. Beware - it's a wild ride. This took up all of my night, and all of my high. God forbid a chemical makes you better.

I'm sorry - forgot the poll. You can delete the other one Cheat

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 05:07:05 AM

And as always the invite link is just discord.gg/TTV

If I ever lose my third level of boost then the invite link is this: https://discord.gg/XETdAyk

maverick · April 22, 2020, 06:32:38 AM

Cheat · April 22, 2020, 07:25:06 AM

Why would you ban that person? Seems kind of crazy to me.

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 07:28:58 AM

Quote from: Cheat on April 22, 2020, 07:25:06 AM

Why would you ban that person? Seems kind of crazy to me.

holy shit thank you

and now everyone is freaking out lmao, all my pivotal members and staff are leaving out of protest

and that's fine

MarKhan · April 22, 2020, 07:53:13 AM

Why you post this here? Why anyone here would bother?

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 07:54:47 AM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 22, 2020, 07:53:13 AM

Why you post this here? Why anyone here would bother?

This site is my blog, haven't you heard?

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · April 22, 2020, 07:57:10 AM

I don't see anything wrong with what they said. I might be misinterpreting of course. Are they saying that non-binary shouldn't be a thing?

I think those non-bins need to think about what it means to be a man or a woman and what it would mean to be neither or be both at the same time.

They are like New-Yorkers who constantly talk about their commute but not about their job or home. Just stfu already and get to your destination.

Their only personality trait are their pronouns.

CMD.exe · April 22, 2020, 08:02:19 AM

Lock Requested

MarKhan · April 22, 2020, 08:09:09 AM

I don't see anything wrong with what they said either. So good for you you have smart members like him that drive out shitty ones.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM

given that you haven't provided the full story, i'm inclined to side with the people leaving

there's no reason to ban anybody for having stupid opinions, but if the server really had been advertised as a "safe space" for these weak, weak people who so desperately need attention, or want to cling to the notion that they're special, or whatever the fuck is going on in their developing prepubescent minds, then it's not shock that they'd leave once the illusion that they're trying to maintain is shattered

having a designated debate room where free speech absolutism is a cornerstone in what's been advertised as a safe space for LGBT+ people is a very poor mixture, and you really can't have both

it also sounds like some people left not because of the decision not to ban that person, but because you personally made it a much bigger thing than it needed to be by going on and on about it, to a point where you had people saying "okay fine, can we just drop it now" at the very beginning of the logs (clearly showing this went on for a much longer time than was shown)

no one wants to be part of a channel that's led by some raving druggie, despite the fact that you will never accept that that's what you are

i certainly think it's cool that you won't ban someone for having incendiary opinions, but perhaps if you made the intentions of the server clearer, you wouldn't be having this mass exodus of people who thought this was a drama-less server

this is also why nobody here is going to join, ever, because you're the one running it, and you've consistently proven that you don't know the first thing about how to run something like this

DAS B00T x2 · April 22, 2020, 08:39:47 AM

Thanks, Obama

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 08:47:16 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM

given that you haven't provided the full story, i'm inclined to side with the people leaving

there's no reason to ban anybody for having stupid opinions, but if the server really had been advertised as a "safe space" for these weak, weak people who so desperately need attention, or want to cling to the notion that they're special, or whatever the fuck is going on in their developing prepubescent minds, then it's not shock that they'd leave once the illusion that they're trying to maintain is shattered

having a designated debate room where free speech absolutism is a cornerstone in what's been advertised as a safe space for LGBT+ people is a very poor mixture, and you really can't have both

it also sounds like some people left not because of the decision not to ban that person, but because you personally made it a much bigger thing than it needed to be by going on and on about it, to a point where you had people saying "okay fine, can we just drop it now" at the very beginning of the logs (clearly showing this went on for a much longer time than was shown)

no one wants to be part of a channel that's led by some raving druggie, despite the fact that you will never accept that that's what you are

i certainly think it's cool that you won't ban someone for having incendiary opinions, but perhaps if you made the intentions of the server clearer, you wouldn't be having this mass exodus of people who thought this was a drama-less server

this is also why nobody here is going to join, ever, because you're the one running it, and you've consistently proven that you don't know the first thing about how to run something like this

Oh how wrong you are, Verbatim. I never advertised it as a safe space, ever. I made my intentions clear from the start. The members tried to make it something that it wasn't. And lol, we're still going strong. It wasn't really a mass exodus. Eleven people left, most of them notable or staff members, yes. But they don't define the server. You don't know what you're talking about. I'll refer to you as "Verbatim" out of respect, I apologize for when I used your IRL name to try to seem cool.

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 08:51:49 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM

having a designated debate room where free speech absolutism is a cornerstone in what's been advertised as a safe space for LGBT+ people is a very poor mixture, and you really can't have both

I take issue with this. At no point did I advertise my server as a safe space. People assumed it was a "safe space" because it was an LGBT/trans server that had strict rules against slurs, harassment, etc. And you absoluitely can have LGBT people in a designated debate/free speech room. We aren't lesser minded just because of being LGBT lol. The sensitive ones don't speak for all of us.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 08:52:22 AM

i've just always been into the idea of forcibly breaking out of our biological limitations, because that's just how crafty we are

that said, non-binaries as a generalization are some of the most insufferable people i've ever seen

i actually think i might possibly be non-binary myself, because i've never really felt "at home" with my maleness in any real sense, but i've suppressed a lot of my own gender exploration just because i don't want the association

fundamentally, whatever the fuck it is i am, it doesn't matter anyway, and it certainly doesn't make me special—even if i came to the conclusion that i wasn't actually a cisman, for purely practical purposes, i cannot imagine obliging anybody to indulge me, or making any sort of fuss about it whatsoever

i won't say they don't exist, but i will say that i haven't met one who i've wanted to be friends with

i'd like to speak to a reasonable NB so they can help me understand where they're coming from, but as you have shown, a lot of these people aren't equipped for those kinds of discussions, because that would require them to entertain a notion that makes them feel "excluded" in some way, and people hate being put on the defensive all the time

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:00:52 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 08:51:49 AM

I take issue with this. At no point did I advertise my server as a safe space. People assumed it was a "safe space" because it was an LGBT/trans server that had strict rules against slurs, harassment, etc.

i would have to be stupid to take your word for it 100%, so i'm naturally going to assume that you're leaving out details because you're sick of looking bad

Quote

And you absoluitely can have LGBT people in a designated debate/free speech room. We aren't lesser minded just because of being LGBT lol. The sensitive ones don't speak for all of us.

wanting a drama-free safe space doesn't make you lesser minded, and it's weird that you think otherwise

edit:
don't you love when you accidentally leave out an important word like DOESN'T

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:01:17 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:52:22 AM

i actually think i might possibly be non-binary myself, because i've never really felt "at home" with my maleness in any real sense, but i've suppressed a lot of my own gender exploration just because i don't want the association

I completely understand that. To take a crude metaphor, it's like being a fan of the show Rick and Morty. Even if you truly enjoy the show and the plot and the characters and all that, you still don't want to be associated with the show whatsoever, just because of the people who loudly indulge in that show and make it look bad for everyone.

It's extremely unfortunate that someone is probably repressing out there just because they don't want to be associated with how society at large sees their demographic. That's part of the reason I despised my own gender identity so much. I really hated the presentation of "trannies" in media and Seth MacFarlane shows and such. I didn't want to be a gross "drag queen" that was so despicable, and the media I consumed taught me that drag queens and trans people were one and the same. That's what set me back at least a decade. So yes Verbatim, I completely understand where you're coming from here.

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:02:39 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:00:52 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 08:51:49 AM
I take issue with this. At no point did I advertise my server as a safe space. People assumed it was a "safe space" because it was an LGBT/trans server that had strict rules against slurs, harassment, etc.
i would have to be stupid to take your word for it 100%, so i'm naturally going to assume that you're leaving out details because you're sick of looking bad
Quote
And you absoluitely can have LGBT people in a designated debate/free speech room. We aren't lesser minded just because of being LGBT lol. The sensitive ones don't speak for all of us.
wanting a drama-free safe space makes you lesser minded, and it's weird that you think that

Join my server and see for yourself dude. I'm not a liar.

And I messed up, I thought you meant all LGBT people, not just the safe spacers.

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:04:27 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:00:52 AM

wanting a drama-free safe space doesn't make you lesser minded, and it's weird that you think otherwise

edit:
don't you love when you accidentally leave out an important word like DOESN'T

I don't think it makes you lesser minded at all. I thought you thought that.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:06:26 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 09:04:27 AM

I don't think it makes you lesser minded at all. I thought you thought that.

it makes you fragile and incredibly thin-skinned, which are qualities in a person that i find difficult to respect

but that doesn't say anything about your intelligence, as far as i'm concerned

MarKhan · April 22, 2020, 09:07:35 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM

there's no reason to ban anybody for having stupid opinions, but if the server really had been advertised as a "safe space" for these weak, weak people who so desperately need attention, or want to cling to the notion that they're special, or whatever the fuck is going on in their developing prepubescent minds, then it's not shock that they'd leave once the illusion that they're trying to maintain is shattered

Well, that's how it is advertised

I guess it's about TV shows. If I to believe to the description "Television connects us all" it's an open, wide... umm discord server. I don't think there is a one defined community in there, so things like that is bound to happen quite often until some sort of community will take a shape.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · April 22, 2020, 09:08:50 AM

Enby people exist and that's denying their existence is a pretty inflammatory take. That being said, banning might be too far. A warning also seems heavy, but realistically the admin/mod's purpose in this situation should be to guide discussion towards something more understanding. They don't have to suddenly become an NB activist, but starting in a place that isn't "I think you just want attention" would be easier to keep civil.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:12:41 AM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 22, 2020, 09:07:35 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM
there's no reason to ban anybody for having stupid opinions, but if the server really had been advertised as a "safe space" for these weak, weak people who so desperately need attention, or want to cling to the notion that they're special, or whatever the fuck is going on in their developing prepubescent minds, then it's not shock that they'd leave once the illusion that they're trying to maintain is shattered
Well, that's how it is advertised

I guess it's about TV shows. If I to believe to the description "Television connects us all" it's an open, wide... umm discord server. I don't think there is a one defined community in there, so things like that is bound to happen quite often until some sort of community will take a shape.

you're right, the description is so vague that you can project anything you want

what it should probably say instead is "a modest server with a focus on freedom of expression" because that's clearly the most important ideal to secondclass

empathy is a good thing to emphasize, but not if it's going to foster that stereotypical snowflake mentality where no one's allowed to have conversations about gender in a way that makes you uncomfortable

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:16:53 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:12:41 AM

Quote from: MarKhan on April 22, 2020, 09:07:35 AM
Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 08:29:50 AM
there's no reason to ban anybody for having stupid opinions, but if the server really had been advertised as a "safe space" for these weak, weak people who so desperately need attention, or want to cling to the notion that they're special, or whatever the fuck is going on in their developing prepubescent minds, then it's not shock that they'd leave once the illusion that they're trying to maintain is shattered
Well, that's how it is advertised

I guess it's about TV shows. If I to believe to the description "Television connects us all" it's an open, wide... umm discord server. I don't think there is a one defined community in there, so things like that is bound to happen quite often until some sort of community will take a shape.
you're right, the description is so vague that you can project anything you want

what it should probably say instead is "a modest server with a focus on freedom of expression" because that's clearly the most important ideal to secondclass

empathy is a good thing to emphasize, but not if it's going to foster that stereotypical snowflake mentality where no one's allowed to have conversations about gender in a way that makes you uncomfortable

True, I should edit that.

New description:

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:18:36 AM

how would you respond if someone entered the #volcano debate section and said "it's my personal belief that white people are superior to all other races"

the topic never comes up anywhere else; only in this designated channel that affords them absolute free speech, expressed in the most vanilla way possible

would you tolerate this? just curious as to how far this goes for you

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:21:32 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:18:36 AM

how would you respond if someone entered the #volcano debate section and said "it's my personal belief that white people are superior to all other races"

the topic never comes up anywhere else; only in this designated channel that affords them absolute free speech, expressed in the most vanilla way possible

would you tolerate this? just curious as to how far this goes for you

If it was delivered in a clinical way, and the person had actual evidence to back it up, then it would be allowed. I've said that even people arguing for phrenology can go into volcano. It's marked as a NSFW channel for a reason.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:25:57 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 09:21:32 AM

If it was delivered in a clinical way, and the person had actual evidence to back it up, then it would be allowed. I've said that even people arguing for phrenology can go into volcano. It's marked as a NSFW channel for a reason.

is this a popular section of the server, or does it rarely get posted in

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:33:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:25:57 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 09:21:32 AM
If it was delivered in a clinical way, and the person had actual evidence to back it up, then it would be allowed. I've said that even people arguing for phrenology can go into volcano. It's marked as a NSFW channel for a reason.
is this a popular section of the server, or does it rarely get posted in

It's the third channel down. It's in the main chats. This is how my server is laid out:

Spoiler

SecondClass · April 22, 2020, 09:35:05 AM

The Clouds are a special VIP chat for trusted members. The Tower is for mods. The Theater is read-only and I just upload a bunch of links to royalty-free TV shows.

Verbatim · April 22, 2020, 09:37:08 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 09:33:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
Quote from: SecondClass on April 22, 2020, 09:21:32 AM
If it was delivered in a clinical way, and the person had actual evidence to back it up, then it would be allowed. I've said that even people arguing for phrenology can go into volcano. It's marked as a NSFW channel for a reason.
is this a popular section of the server, or does it rarely get posted in
It's the third channel down. It's in the main chats. This is how my server is laid out:

Spoiler

so did you not see anything like this coming or what

Poll

Who was right?

I lost a lot of members tonight [WITH POLL]