I actually found good defenses for pedophilia

Loaf · May 28, 2015, 05:39:27 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:34:25 PM
You seem to be ignoring the part of the article that explains that the stigma about having sexual relations with an adult is what makes child "molestation" a bad thing. Sexual contact with a child is not inherently bad, as it says in the article.
i agree

killing people isn't inherently bad, either

but that doesn't change the fact that it's still probably a bad idea 99.999999999% of the time

You're comparing killing people to having sex with children, when sex isn't even inherently bad.

Mattie G Indahouse · May 28, 2015, 05:39:31 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:33:04 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:31:12 PM
I can't believe how low people can get. If these sick fucks had any class they would wait until the kid turns 13. Wanting to have sex with someone under 13 is just wrong.
really, more like 16

just because you're "biologically prepared" does not mean you are mentally prepared

There's kids having sex at 14 and even lower. If they get pregnant that young they wouldn't be able to raise a kid by themselves but sex wise they would be prepared. Lets face it you're getting taught about sex in middle school and by the time you're 13 or 14 you're going to know enough about. For the mentally prepared part you can explore yourself and see what you like to get ready. And for sex you can take your time until you're ready for it. Just because someone is 13 doesn't mean they don't have the mind for it.

Mat Cauthon · May 28, 2015, 05:40:40 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:36:26 PM

"Defence for paedophilia"

LOL!

Ok, quick tip.
Taking Loaf threads seriously is bad for your mental health.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:41:07 PM

Quote from: DAS "كافر" B00T on May 28, 2015, 05:37:17 PM

That's why you get em BEFORE puberty!

this prompted me to look up the youngest birth mother ever

turns out, she was 5

DAS B00T x2 · May 28, 2015, 05:41:45 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:39:31 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:33:04 PM
Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:31:12 PM
I can't believe how low people can get. If these sick fucks had any class they would wait until the kid turns 13. Wanting to have sex with someone under 13 is just wrong.
really, more like 16

just because you're "biologically prepared" does not mean you are mentally prepared
There's kids having sex at 14 and even lower. If they get pregnant that young they wouldn't be able to raise a kid by themselves but sex wise they would be prepared. Lets face it you're getting taught about sex in middle school and by the time you're 13 or 14 you're going to know enough about. For the mentally prepared part you can explore yourself and see what you like to get ready. And for sex you can take your time until you're ready for it. Just because someone is 13 doesn't mean they don't have the mind for it.

Yeah, but, if you've actually hung around the youth of these days, they're basically all talk. 16 and Pregnant is still just a tv show to most...

Unless you're black and/or Hispanic and living in an inner city environment.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:41:53 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:39:31 PM

There's kids having sex at 14 and even lower.

and that's terrible

Quote

Just because someone is 13 doesn't mean they don't have the mind for it.

yes, it does

NO ONE has a mind for it

no one

DAS B00T x2 · May 28, 2015, 05:42:18 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:41:07 PM

Quote from: DAS "كافر" B00T on May 28, 2015, 05:37:17 PM
That's why you get em BEFORE puberty!
this prompted me to look up the youngest birth mother ever

turns out, she was 5

Then I have a new record to beat.

PSU · May 28, 2015, 05:42:22 PM

What the fuck bro?

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:43:55 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:39:27 PM

You're comparing killing people to having sex with children, when sex isn't even inherently bad.

killing isn't inherently bad either

i literally just said that

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · May 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM

Quote from: Jojo on May 28, 2015, 05:40:40 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
"Defence for paedophilia"

LOL!
Ok, quick tip.
Taking Loaf threads seriously is bad for your mental health.

Still hilarious though

Mattie G Indahouse · May 28, 2015, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:38:39 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:34:25 PM
You seem to be ignoring the part of the article that explains that the stigma about having sexual relations with an adult is what makes child "molestation" a bad thing. Sexual contact with a child is not inherently bad, as it says in the article.
i agree

killing people isn't inherently bad, either

but that doesn't change the fact that it's still probably a bad idea 99.999999999% of the time

Except having sex with someone willingly who is old enough to handle it is not bad. Having sex with a 13 year old is no different than having it with someone 16 or over. As long as it's not forced and the body is able to handle it no harm is being done. Killing someone on the other hand does cause harm becasue that person you killed may be close to people.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:46:12 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:45:07 PM

Killing someone on the other hand does cause harm becasue that person you killed may be close to people.

maybe the 13 year old you're having sex with is close to people

what the fuck is your point

Mat Cauthon · May 28, 2015, 05:46:38 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM

Quote from: Jojo on May 28, 2015, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
"Defence for paedophilia"

LOL!
Ok, quick tip.
Taking Loaf threads seriously is bad for your mental health.
Still hilarious though

Oh right, you really did mean that as if you were laughing.
Hard to tell with this sort of thread.

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · May 28, 2015, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: Jojo on May 28, 2015, 05:46:38 PM

Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: Jojo on May 28, 2015, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 28, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
"Defence for paedophilia"

LOL!
Ok, quick tip.
Taking Loaf threads seriously is bad for your mental health.
Still hilarious though
Oh right, you really did mean that as if you were laughing.
Hard to tell with this sort of thread.

I ryle hope hes joking

otherwise I will be laughing for all the wrong reasons.

Loaf · May 28, 2015, 05:48:44 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:43:55 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:39:27 PM
You're comparing killing people to having sex with children, when sex isn't even inherently bad.
killing isn't inherently bad either

i literally just said that

It kinda is, because it damages the lives of the people who knew the person, indirectly. It also ends the person's life who was killed, obviously. I am not looking at things from a completely nihilistic vacuum kind of way. I made this thread with the intent and purpose of having a real, down to earth discussion. I think i was pretty naive to have thought that it could go any other way than it already did, but then again I wasn't naive because I didn't expect that to happen anyways. I guess you can call me a bit noble for going ahead with it anyways, arbitrarily. You know that any idea that is non popular can only be fully realized once it has actually become known to the people who oppose it. I don't think that anyone has really ever thought of the opposing argument to why pedophilia is wrong, so I thought it would be interesting to link the article. Maybe now you can think of something you wouldn't have otherwise thought of, which is actually healthy for your brain. It's good to have a broad perspective of the issues you tackle, so you can be a wiser person.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:49:43 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:48:44 PM

It kinda is

nope

Quote

, because it damages the lives of the people who knew the person, indirectly.

having sex with children damages the lives of people indirectly, too

learn to make smaller paragraphs

Mattie G Indahouse · May 28, 2015, 05:50:15 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:41:53 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:39:31 PM
There's kids having sex at 14 and even lower.
and that's terrible

How are two people that happen to be 14 pleasuring each other terrible? What exactly is so bad about non forced sex between two people that are able to do it without harm and are mentally capable of doing it? At a age like 5 then I agree with you but at 14 there's no harm done at all.

Quote

yes, it does

NO ONE has a mind for it

no one

Out of all the people on this planet no matter what age they are or how smart they are. How is it that no one has the mind for it?

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:51:08 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:50:15 PM

How are two people that happen to be 14 pleasuring each other terrible? What exactly is so bad about non forced sex between two people that are able to do it without harm and are mentally capable of doing it? At a age like 5 then I agree with you but at 14 there's no harm done at all.

the risks

fucking dumbass

Quote

Out of all the people on this planet no matter what age they are or how smart they are. How is it that no one has the mind for it?

because they haven't realized that the risk of having children is far too great to be having so much unprotected sex

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:51:48 PM

the vast majority of people don't take contraception

what makes you think a dumbfuck teenager is gonna be that responsible

DAS B00T x2 · May 28, 2015, 05:52:11 PM

But verb
contraceptives

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:52:22 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:51:48 PM

the vast majority of people don't take contraception

what makes you think a dumbfuck teenager is gonna be that responsible

^

not to mention, no contraceptive measures are 100% successful

DAS B00T x2 · May 28, 2015, 05:52:52 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:52:22 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:51:48 PM
the vast majority of people don't take contraception

what makes you think a dumbfuck teenager is gonna be that responsible

They're free now 'cause obummercare.

Loaf · May 28, 2015, 05:53:05 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:49:43 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:48:44 PM
It kinda is
nope
Quote
, because it damages the lives of the people who knew the person, indirectly.
having sex with children damages the lives of people indirectly, too

learn to make smaller paragraphs

You're ignoring key pieces of the arguments that have been made. It's not really worth trying to have this discussion with you if you have no intent of even listening to and addressing the opposing argument. It seems that you've taken a sanctamonious stance on the argument and decided to try to straight up refute everything I say, which is really just tiring and only leads to very low level arguments. I am above that kind of thing, so I will try to just give you some space, because I obviously hit a chord with you. I have no intent of arguing with a person who has no intent in listening to logic, to make a logical argument. That kind of thing can only lead to myself being insane.

Mattie G Indahouse · May 28, 2015, 05:53:21 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:46:12 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:45:07 PM
Killing someone on the other hand does cause harm becasue that person you killed may be close to people.
maybe the 13 year old you're having sex with is close to people

what the fuck is your point

I just want to throw this out here that I'm not having sex with a kid. I'm just brushing aside the moral wrong shit about it and thinking about it. Anyway how is having sex with a 13 year old bad when if it's not forced and you don't get the person pregnant as bad as killing someone? That's like comparing a person jaywalking to a person that steals cars. Both things are different.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: DAS "كافر" B00T on May 28, 2015, 05:52:52 PM

They're free now 'cause obummercare.

which is great, but no one's using them

there's gonna be 8 billion people on this planet by 2020

DAS B00T x2 · May 28, 2015, 05:54:18 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: DAS "كافر" B00T on May 28, 2015, 05:52:52 PM
They're free now 'cause obummercare.
which is great, but no one's using them

there's gonna be 8 billion people on this planet by 2020

Nonsense. People love free shit.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 05:56:21 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:53:21 PM

I just want to throw this out here that I'm not having sex with a kid.

i never said you did--i'm being indirect with you

Quote

Anyway how is having sex with a 13 year old bad when if it's not forced and you don't get the person pregnant as bad as killing someone?

i never said it was

when did i say it was

i'm saying that just because a dumbfuck teenager thinks it's a good idea, and another dumbfuck teenager thinks it's a good idea, doesn't make it a good idea.

at all

Mattie G Indahouse · May 28, 2015, 05:58:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 28, 2015, 05:51:08 PM

the risks

You also have risks at any age. If you're both having normal protective sex and you use lub there is no harm being done at all. There is a thing called safe sex.

Quote

fucking dumbass

I can say the same thing about you for your outlooks on things but I'm going to be the bigger person here.

Quote

because they haven't realized that the risk of having children is far too great to be having so much unprotected sex

As long as you are able to support the kid and you're not doing shit like drugs during pregnancy what risk is there? I don't see what risk there is for a middle class couple who doesn't do drugs having a child.

Verbatim · May 28, 2015, 06:01:59 PM

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on May 28, 2015, 05:58:23 PM

You also have risks at any age.

would you rather have a kid at 30, or a kid at 13?

Quote

If you're both having normal protective sex and you use lub there is no harm being done at all. There is a thing called safe sex.

and nobody has it

Quote

As long as you are able to support the kid and you're not doing shit like drugs during pregnancy what risk is there?

making sure the kid is fed
making sure you don't fuck him up psychologically
making sure he watches the right movies
making sure he makes friends with the right people
making sure he's healthy
making sure he survives
making sure he doesn't turn into an evil cunt
making sure he NEVER gets hurt
making sure YOU never hurt him

it takes over your life
and there's nothing you could ever do to prepare yourself for it

NOTHING

Pendulate · May 28, 2015, 06:15:29 PM

Quote from: Loaf on May 28, 2015, 05:39:27 PM

You're comparing killing people to having sex with children, when sex isn't even inherently bad.

To be fair that was his point. Killing isn't inherently bad.

Both are prima facie bad, though (child molestation and killing) which is where you need to start. Why is child molestation prima facie bad? Well, the most obvious factor is that it manipulates the autonomy of the child (autonomy which is underdeveloped, too) and to such a degree that it usually causes long-term damage to them -- compared to other manipulative acts, like grounding them for misbehaving. This is not only due to the social stigma of pedophilia; it's due to the social (perhaps innate) value we place on sex in general. Sex has a big effect on people. Regarding nature vs nurture I'm not sure how the scales tip, but either way your problem would have to be with sex as a whole, not just pedophilia.

And even if the child enjoys it at the time, as they mature and reflect on it they are almost certainly going to suffer, from the realization that they were violated on such a personal level.

You say the moral gravity of molestation has been blown out of proportion. Perhaps you are right, but that doesn't make it any more morally acceptable -- it just means we are failing to criticize other equally immoral acts.