I already hate it.

"Every man is a suffering-machine and a happiness-machine combined. The two functions work together harmoniously, with a fine and delicate precision, on the give-and-take principle. For every happiness turned out in the one department the other stands ready to modify it with a sorrow or a pain—maybe a dozen. In most cases the man's life is about equally divided between happiness and unhappiness. When this is not the case the unhappiness predominates—always; never the other."

Happiness outweighs suffering. If someone asked me whether I'd want an hour of happiness and then an hour of suffering, or nothing at all, I'd take the former in a heartbeat.

and then you'd regret it

"no i wouldn't"

yeah... you would

you've never felt real suffering in your life

Sure, I've never been tortured or mutilated. But that's not a realistic perception for suffering for 99% of humans.

which means 99% of humans do not have a realistic perception of real suffering

besides, it shouldn't matter, if you can honestly think of a good experience that would outweigh being tortured and mutilated

i don't think you can

I remember reading a breakdown of all the symbolism in the video one time but I forget all of it now.

it's pretty clear though

Quote from: Maverick on May 16, 2015, 12:02:06 AM

I remember reading a breakdown of all the symbolism in the video one time but I forget all of it now.

it's pretty clear though

The overall pessimistic outlook on humanity is clear but I'm talking about stuff like the oranges, apples and grapes and why each kid chose the specific fruit.

Quote from: SecondClass on May 16, 2015, 12:04:52 AM

99% of humans live their lives without any fear of actual physical torture. That vastly outweighs the 1% who does.

how is this relevant, then, to your initial assertion that you'd undergo an hour of suffering if you could only receive an hour of pleasure first, if the suffering is conditioned only by, presumably, the worst you have felt thus far?

you've relegated your point to, "i would suffer for an orgasm, just as long as the suffering isn't so bad"

a vapid, diffident statement that has no meaning

My original post implied equal happiness and suffering. You can't have an argument of "oh you'd choose to spend an hour undergoing excruciating pain and misery so you can spend the next hour lounging around with a cup of peach tea?" It's not comparable. The average human is never going to be tortured in some Russian gulag, so even bringing up the point of "you've never had REAL suffering" is pointless.

My original post implied equal happiness and suffering. You can't have an argument of "oh you'd choose to spend an hour undergoing excruciating pain and misery so you can spend the next hour lounging around with a cup of peach tea?" It's not comparable. The average human is never going to be tortured in some Russian gulag, so even bringing up the point of "you've never had REAL suffering" is pointless.

if you could illustrate the scenario for me, then, that would be helpful
i won't contradict you, but i don't suspect that i will agree with you

it's difficult for me to imagine a scenario where the suffering/happiness do not outweigh each other either which way, even if only by just a little bit

i would stop eating cupcakes if i had to prick my finger every single time i decided to eat one
they wouldn't really be worth it to me anymore at that point

Quote from: SecondClass on May 16, 2015, 12:14:32 AM

My original post implied equal happiness and suffering. You can't have an argument of "oh you'd choose to spend an hour undergoing excruciating pain and misery so you can spend the next hour lounging around with a cup of peach tea?" It's not comparable. The average human is never going to be tortured in some Russian gulag, so even bringing up the point of "you've never had REAL suffering" is pointless.

if you could illustrate the scenario for me, then, that would be helpful
i won't contradict you, but i don't suspect that i will agree with you

it's difficult for me to imagine a scenario where the suffering/happiness do not outweigh each other either which way, even if only by just a little bit

i would stop eating cupcakes if i had to prick my finger every single time i decided to eat one
they wouldn't really be worth it to me anymore at that point

I'll use an example here.

Physical improvement. Anything physical you do, has a cost on your body. Any muscles you use, will eventually tire, and strain, and become damaged. Sitting here, right now, I'll list the parts of my body that I can feel, that feel like absolute shit because this is the end of the work week for me and I am at my physical limit and can do no more.

Hands, nerves, wrists, shoulders, back shoulders, neck, spine, legs, abdominals, muscles over my ribcage.

I'm not a cheery bundle right now. I'm tired and tomorrow morning, getting out of bed will be the equivalent to wearing a suit of iron.

And yet, given a few days of rest, everything will heal. And next week, my muscles, my cardio, my heart, my lungs, everything, will be stronger. They will be improved. And it feels good to have that improvement. It feels good to have that physical capability and ability.

To the extent that the benefit and pleasure outweighs the pain along the road, completely.

And, nevermind the pleasure. It is inherently a good thing to have a healthy, functioning body. To push it to it's maximum. I'm not talking body builder toned either. I'm talking, just pushing your capabilites further to their natural limit.

There is no argument that says getting more in shape is a bad thing at all. And therefore, the pain required to do so is merely an obstacle and the end result, outweighs it every single time.

Quote from: Verbatim on May 15, 2015, 11:54:39 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on May 15, 2015, 11:52:55 PM

Happiness outweighs suffering. If someone asked me whether I'd want an hour of happiness and then an hour of suffering, or nothing at all, I'd take the former in a heartbeat.

and then you'd regret it

"no i wouldn't"

yeah... you would

you've never felt real suffering in your life

And you have?

Cutting your wrists or getting dumped by a girl doesn't count.

Well to be fair having a cut of any kind does blow ass.

And getting dumped by somebody you previously enjoyed as pleasant company does leave a mark.

To be honest I'd rather go through another month or two of the work I'm doing now than to feel down and blue from having a potshot taken on my metaphorical heart.

Quote from: Magos Domina on May 16, 2015, 12:52:17 AM

And you have?

No

that doesn't mean not i'm able to recognize that when someone says "the good in the world outweighs the bad in the world", they're talking out of their ass

What do you live for?

*sips tea*

Seen it already.

I think it's stupid.

It doesn't.

Transcendant.