Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 04:34:43 PMThat's different, you see, there's the problem of survival instinct. The only apparent purpose of organisms is to further propagate themselves.If our only apparent purpose was to throw shit at each other, would you do it?Or would you take advantage of our enhanced capacity to reason, and try to come up with a more intelligent purpose?QuoteDoes it really matter anyway? Eventually humans (as they are now) will disappear one way or another, as will all species currently existing.Why wait?
That's different, you see, there's the problem of survival instinct. The only apparent purpose of organisms is to further propagate themselves.
Does it really matter anyway? Eventually humans (as they are now) will disappear one way or another, as will all species currently existing.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 05:12:51 PMThat's an interesting comparison but it's not really the same, because getting rewarding stimuli as quickly and efficiently as possible is instinct-driven.it's also logicalbelieve it or not, instinct and logic, at times, coalesce
That's an interesting comparison but it's not really the same, because getting rewarding stimuli as quickly and efficiently as possible is instinct-driven.
Of course they do, but from a logical viewpoint that doesn't have any instinct bias, it is pointless to want something sooner rather than later.
That's the thing. Any logical person can conclude that there is no such thing as a "good" or "bad" thing. Everything we know is just perceived order out of utter chaos.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 05:28:23 PMThat's the thing. Any logical person can conclude that there is no such thing as a "good" or "bad" thing. Everything we know is just perceived order out of utter chaos.Hence, there is no chaos. Things are countable, definable, and qualifiable in ways that are meaningful to us.ie. if something is bad to us, then it is essentially bad in an objective senseif it weren't bad in an objective sense, that it would be either "good" or neutralto us(the only things in the universe that matter)
Kowtowing to the super-reality is no way to live.
That's just human reasoning trying to make sense of it all. We thrive off order.Also, again using logic, nothing in the universe truly matters until proven otherwise.Here's a very good experiment that perfectly represents what I'm trying to get across;https://libraryofbabel.info/It contains every combination of words ever (ex: how to stop biological aging, details of every event in your life, it explains all the mysteries of the universe, the fate of humans and earth, ), and every image that could ever be created (ex: real pictures every human during every moment of their life, past, present and future, pictures of dinosaurs living in their time, pictures of extraterrestrial life, pictures of black holes, works of art lost to the ages). It also contains everything I just said - in fact, this whole conversation and everything that has been said on this site.It all comes from an algorithm working with a number that may as well be infinity. The algorithm uses logic to do this.
You should just be aware of how things really are, I still live my life like any other human.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 05:43:16 PMThat's just human reasoning trying to make sense of it all. We thrive off order.Also, again using logic, nothing in the universe truly matters until proven otherwise.Here's a very good experiment that perfectly represents what I'm trying to get across;https://libraryofbabel.info/It contains every combination of words ever (ex: how to stop biological aging, details of every event in your life, it explains all the mysteries of the universe, the fate of humans and earth, ), and every image that could ever be created (ex: real pictures every human during every moment of their life, past, present and future, pictures of dinosaurs living in their time, pictures of extraterrestrial life, pictures of black holes, works of art lost to the ages). It also contains everything I just said - in fact, this whole conversation and everything that has been said on this site.It all comes from an algorithm working with a number that may as well be infinity. The algorithm uses logic to do this.Neat. Not sure what that has to do with anything.Humans decide what matters--because why not? Not sure why that's difficult.Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 05:45:37 PMYou should just be aware of how things really are, I still live my life like any other human.We can't be aware of how things really are, so it's pointless to try. Focus on our plane of existence. It's stupid to even acknowledge the existence of the super-reality.
I posted that because you can experiment with the perceived order. And how is it stupid? It seems illogical not to be aware of this "super-reality".
Quote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 03:40:10 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:38:21 PMQuote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:36:34 PMYou also choose to hate people because they are black.Exactly....but you can't choose to be black. That's my point.Pretty sure that the transnegro community would like a word with you.good thing transnegros and regular trannies are fakeDon't be so hard on yourself, bro
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:38:21 PMQuote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:36:34 PMYou also choose to hate people because they are black.Exactly....but you can't choose to be black. That's my point.Pretty sure that the transnegro community would like a word with you.good thing transnegros and regular trannies are fake
Quote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 03:37:36 PMQuote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:36:34 PMYou also choose to hate people because they are black.Exactly....but you can't choose to be black. That's my point.Pretty sure that the transnegro community would like a word with you.
Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on November 24, 2015, 03:36:34 PMYou also choose to hate people because they are black.Exactly....but you can't choose to be black. That's my point.
You also choose to hate people because they are black.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 05:50:22 PMI posted that because you can experiment with the perceived order. And how is it stupid? It seems illogical not to be aware of this "super-reality".You can be aware of it, but it's pointless to acknowledge it, because we can't perceive it. And we won't.It seems to me that you don't WANT purpose, so you pretend none exists. Because once you have an objective purpose to life (ending it), you start getting these pesky little moral responsibilities, and that's kind of a drag, so you ignore them.
Woah there, I do have those made-up moral responsibilities and a made-up human "purpose" to life because -- you guessed it -- I'm a human!
What about the fact that there is no one purpose to all life? The purpose is dependent on each person and his or her perception of things.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 06:08:16 PMWoah there, I do have those made-up moral responsibilities and a made-up human "purpose" to life because -- you guessed it -- I'm a human! Being a nihilist is basically the same thing as relinquishing both your moral responsibility and your capacity to reason--by acknowledging that your moral responsibilities are "made up", you're dismissing them. It's like you don't actually think you have moral responsibilities at all. You're being very disingenuous.
Quote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 06:07:11 PMWhat about the fact that there is no one purpose to all life? The purpose is dependent on each person and his or her perception of things.The purpose of life is simple--prevent all suffering. The easiest way of going about this would be to stop having kids. If someone else has any better ideas, I'm all ears, but considering I've been an anti-natalist for almost four years now, I doubt anybody does.
I already explained this in my above post. And how does being aware of the fact that moral responsibilities are made up mean that I'm dismissing them?
There's no authority to dictate a universal "purpose of life" for all humans.
Everyone chooses what the purpose of their life is.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 06:17:31 PMI already explained this in my above post. And how does being aware of the fact that moral responsibilities are made up mean that I'm dismissing them?Because you're literally trying to convince me that, somehow, we're bereft of moral responsibility, because according to the super-reality, nothing matters anyway. If nothing matters, it's pointless to care about anything, and it's pointless to be an anti-natalist (or anything, really) because we're all going to die anyway. That's basically what you're telling me. Yeah?
That purpose is not a constant for everyone.
Also, hooman fallacies run amok in this post - "I can't accept new ideas, so everyone else's idea is wrong!" for example.
I'm also telling you that because we're humans with human limitations, we have to be humans because fuck logic and that's just how it is.
Which is literally nowhere in that post.
I'm all ears, but considering I've been an anti-natalist for almost four years now, I doubt anybody does
Quote from: SecondClass on November 24, 2015, 06:18:58 PMThere's no authority to dictate a universal "purpose of life" for all humans.You're right--so instead of pointing that out, as if I don't know, why don't you try to come up with something yourself? I have an idea, and I think it's a pretty good idea. If you don't agree, explain why and present a more suitable one, please.QuoteEveryone chooses what the purpose of their life is.Yes, but the point is that, on top of all that, there is a grand purpose. It's not an objective grand purpose--it's a grand purpose that we as a collective are making up ourselves for the greater good of all sentient life.My personal purpose of life isn't to end all suffering--that's the grand purpose.My personal purpose of life is to communicate my ideas to as much people as possible before I die.
Quote from: KinderEssen on November 24, 2015, 06:22:21 PMI'm also telling you that because we're humans with human limitations, we have to be humans because fuck logic and that's just how it is.We don't have to be anything but good. Every day, we're edging towards a transcendence from humanity. What will you think then?
Personal purposes are all that exist. There is no objective grand purpose for all of humanity - we're just flesh and blood, a result of evolution. Consciousness was an evolutionary misstep, and it causes humans to dream up all of these big questions like "why are we here" and "what's our purpose as a species". But in reality those questions are answered with "no reason", "nothing". I'm not saying morality isn't objective, as things like causing suffering are definitely immoral on an inherent scale - but that doesn't go along with a species wide purpose for humanity.
You've been an anti-natalist for a heck of a long time now, so it's kind of hard to let go of that idea because it's been so ingrained into your mind, lets face it.
Hating people for parts of themselves they can't control is the ultimate evil
