Quote from: Azumarill on June 11, 2015, 08:22:11 PM

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on June 11, 2015, 08:17:45 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 11, 2015, 08:12:03 PM

like, i guess people reconcile with the fact that it's still "entertaining", i guess, but like

for me, if i just spent a hundred or so hours watching a show that essentially meant nothing because it's not actually canon
i'd just feel empty inside

I don't know what use there is saying what's canon and isn't. It's all ASOIF, it's all going to end basically the same way. I like it because it gives you different perspectives of the characters, and in a character-driven series like this one, that's very valuable. And as a book-reader, I really don't mind being surprised by episodes now, instead of just mentally checking off a list of book events the show has done.

It reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist, which has two parallel series which contradict each others' story, but has the same art style, writing style, voice actors, and animation, so it's almost like having twice the content.

im not trying to take away from the show by saying that, but that's just the cold hard truth. it isnt canon. it changes a lot of things. is it still valuable as a work of art, and as a companion piece to a song of ice and fire? absolutely. but it isnt a song of ice and fire. its game of thrones the tv show.

Like I said, I don't see a point to the distinction. Nobody is under the impression that the show is trying to precisely follow the books.

well, verb asked which medium would be better. naturally, because of this schism between the show and books, i would recommend the books. otherwise it doesnt really matter to me. im a fan of both versions of the story

I'd tell you to read the books, but that's also a larger investment of time. Each one is a brick, and they just get thicker and slower in pace. I think I've been reading book 4 for six months now.

<_< ...

jesus christ lol

yeah, i don't even know if i have the patience for that fucking crap
but clearly, you're still invested in the damn story

is there a known drop-out rate? that would be great to know

like, in my opinion, you should be able to tell a good story in one book, if it's worth reading at all

harry potter could've been done in three 500-page books, let's be honest

the way this series works is like a classical poem, its separated into acts. act one is the game of thrones, which is A Game of Thrones/A Clash of Kings/A Storm of Swords. Each book has its own contained story but they're all a part of the larger first act of the Song of Ice and Fire. act two is A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons, which happen at roughly the same time in the story continuity and detail the fallout from the War of the 5 Kings/the Game of Thrones and the escalation to act 3, it's a classic act 2 literary strategy. act 3 will be the conclusion, the planned The Winds of Winter/A Dream of Spring.

for what its worth, i finished the entire series in about a month.

Quote from: Verbatim on June 11, 2015, 08:30:53 PM

like, in my opinion, you should be able to tell a good story in one book, if it's worth reading at all

harry potter could've been done in three 500-page books, let's be honest

the way this series works is like a classical poem, its separated into acts. act one is the game of thrones, which is A Game of Thrones/A Clash of Kings/A Storm of Swords. Each book has its own contained story but they're all a part of the larger first act of the Song of Ice and Fire. act two is A Feast For Crows/A Dance With Dragons, which happen at roughly the same time in the story continuity and detail the fallout from the War of the 5 Kings/the Game of Thrones and the escalation to act 3, it's a classic act 2 literary strategy. act 3 will be the conclusion, the planned The Winds of Winter/A Dream of Spring.

i get that

but that doesn't really have much to do with their length, does it

As for being able to tell the story in a single book, well yeah you could tell the entire plot in a shorter period, but the books are really about getting inside the characters and making them real and believable; you can't do that, while including incredibly complex political struggles, in a single novel.

not if you're a good writer

just sayin

for what its worth, i finished the entire series in about a month.

that's not bad

and i mean, if youre really that put off by the prospect of a long book, this isnt for you. you need to have a proper attention span to really enjoy this series. its not for everyone.

i mean, i've read long books before, and what tends to kill them is that i just lose interest in them after awhile

i don't think it's an attention span thing as much as its my own perception of, "oh, i'm being manipulated into caring about these people, instead of genuinely caring about them"--at that point, i stop, because it's a waste of my time

Quote from: Azumarill on June 11, 2015, 08:38:42 PM

and i mean, if youre really that put off by the prospect of a long book, this isnt for you. you need to have a proper attention span to really enjoy this series. its not for everyone.

i mean, i've read long books before, and what tends to kill them is that i just lose interest in them after awhile

i don't think it's an attention span thing as much as its my own perception of, "oh, i'm being manipulated into caring about these people, instead of genuinely caring about them"--at that point, i stop, because it's a waste of my time

writing from point of views really helps to create a dynamic relationship between the reader and the character we're following, i think. he does a good job of making the characters nuanced and flawed, and i think this really shines in the tragic characters, of which there are many. the elaborate storylines and worldbuilding really make it all seem alive and beautiful and terrible (in the sense that its eloquently distressing).

like, turkey even admitted earlier that the books start becoming a slog after awhile

it's like, "okay, author, i already care about this person--you don't need to convince me any further"

that's what it's like
where exactly do you draw the line between "nuance" and "excessive detail"

thats the thing, these characters arent static. theyre dynamic. their mentalities evolve with their experiences. its not just about "oh i care for this guy now, story over GG nice," thats silly.

Tfw you want Sunday to hurry up and get here, but don't want to wait until next season. 

Quote from: Azumarill on June 11, 2015, 08:53:00 PM

its not just about "oh i care for this guy now, story over GG nice," thats silly.

that's not what i said, though

i dont know what to tell you anymore. you can either read the books or not, its not any concern of mine. ive done all i can to alleviate your concerns re: negative consequences of the length of the series. you will never enjoy a song of ice and fire if you dont just go with the flow and read with an open mind

my point is that once you start getting your audience to care about your characters
that's when you start doing shit--that's when tragedy can occur

and then maybe a little bit more tragedy
but eventually (as in, SOON) it resolves itself

it's really difficult to justify anything being so long--REALLY difficult

then by all means, continue to not read the series

in this case you might as well just watch the show, but you probably wont like that either

i just don't see how you can justify a story not wrapping itself up as soon as possible

unless you're seriously trying to say that "every paragraph has a purpose"
which is the most ingratiating thing i've ever heard

you're basically calling him perfect, and that's just kinda... laughable
you REALLY think the entire series is exactly how it needs to be?

nothing is perfect, but if perfection is required for you to enjoy something, you're going to be fucking miserable.

i just don't see how you can justify a story not wrapping itself up as soon as possible

unless you're seriously trying to say that "every paragraph has a purpose"
which is the most ingratiating things i've ever heard

you're basically calling him perfect, and that's just kinda... laughable
you REALLY think the entire series is exactly how it needs to be?

Look man, you clearly don't want to read it, and no amount of arguing about character depth or realistic plot movement is going to convince you otherwise. Just add this to the list of things you vilify without actually experiencing.

Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on June 11, 2015, 09:21:48 PM

Look man, you clearly don't want to read it, and no amount of arguing about character depth or realistic plot movement is going to convince you otherwise. Just add this to the list of things you vilify without actually experiencing.

it's important that i know precisely what i'm getting into before i get into it

let's not imply that it's a bad thing to gather some preliminary facts about a series and then surmise that i probably wouldn't enjoy it, despite the fact that everyone else seems to

then thats the conclusion we've come to. refer to my post a little bit up the thread for a few short reads in the universe that you might enjoy.