For the ones here who listen to Tool

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 04:52:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:49:18 PM

One in the same according to Verb

kinda, yeah

Jim · December 11, 2014, 04:52:39 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · December 11, 2014, 04:53:23 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

aREALgod · December 11, 2014, 04:54:48 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:49:18 PM

YouTube

YouTube

One in the same according to Verb

YouTube

I CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE LOL

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 04:55:04 PM

it's just like... so, so, so obvious to me that tool is metal

one of those things where it's hard to explain without sounding too condescending?
because i'd have to use very basic terms

DAS B00T x2 · December 11, 2014, 04:55:38 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:52:39 PM

Quote from: DAS B00TINATOR on December 11, 2014, 04:49:46 PM
I usually just write off Jim's ramblings as /mu/ elitist douchebaggary, but he actually mostly knows what he's talking about here.
Now we can get into the ideological and cultural differences that can separate Metal.

YouTube

this is indeed Metal in the technical way of thinking, but it's shitty false poser scum Metal for babymen.

YouTube

Whereas this is trve Metal, reserved only for those welcomed into Valhalla.

I'd make some sort of gay joke or reference to Breaking the Law, but I don't want to pause Chopin to channel the angst and anger necessary.

aREALgod · December 11, 2014, 04:55:38 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 04:52:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:49:18 PM
One in the same according to Verb
kinda, yeah

You DO realize there are also different genres of classical music, right? Romantic, Baroque, etc?

Nexus · December 11, 2014, 04:55:58 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 04:50:33 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:46:34 PM
I don't care what YOU think because the MAJORITY thinks you are wrong.
the majority of people are religious
arguments from majority mean nothing to me, and i refuse to blindly follow majority

That's not the same thing. Religion is a belief. Beliefs can be right or wrong, it's just not certain. This is more of concepts of classifying music which is totally different. If everyone starting calling all Metal Country, and all Country Metal, the definitions of the two genres would change to fit the music. There are certain things that are defined by majority rule. Music classification is one of them.

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 04:56:54 PM

Quote from: Nexus the Star Lord Guy on December 11, 2014, 04:55:58 PM

That's not the same thing. Religion is a belief. Beliefs can be right or wrong, it's just not certain. This is more of concepts of classifying music which is totally different. If everyone starting calling all Metal Country, and all Country Metal, the definitions of the two genres would change to fit the music. There are certain things that are defined by majority rule. Music classification is one of them.

well, i guess i'm starting a movement then

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 04:58:44 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 04:55:38 PM

You DO realize there are also different genres of classical music, right? Romantic, Baroque, etc?

yes

but they're still classical music

just like tool is just a different kind of metal, but it's still metal

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:01:51 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 04:47:55 PM

you are a fucking idiot if you think composition doesn't affect how something sounds.

so if i sped up a song using youtube's speed-up thing

i could change the song's genre?

because i'm changing the tempo, which is part of the composition
and that apparently makes all the difference you need to have different genres

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:02:05 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:03:18 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:05:08 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

aREALgod · December 11, 2014, 05:05:41 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 04:58:44 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 04:55:38 PM
You DO realize there are also different genres of classical music, right? Romantic, Baroque, etc?
yes

but they're still classical music

just like tool is just a different kind of metal, but it's still metal

Tool isn't metal.

Classical music has subgenres, yes, but it does NOT make them the same at all. Classical music of Bach and Mozart is more structured, in a way, while something like Romantic has more fluid movement, a lot more use of differing keys and notes, and some could argue, more raw emotion. Rather than making a running 16th note scale from C major to the next octave, Romantic would hit every sharp and flat on the way up and change to another key entirely to change the tone and feeling. Listen to Caprice Bohemien by Rachmaninov and you will notice this and his mastery of the genre and in particular the use of minor keys. Compare it to Beethoven's fourth piano concerto and the concerto is less fluid. They are not the same.

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:08:11 PM

Quote from: Jim Jones the Cult Lord on December 11, 2014, 05:02:05 PM

Second of all, I don't really give a shit about genres in the grand scheme of things, but they help classify what music you like. That way, instead of saying "hey I would like some metal recs" and getting Tool as a response, you can say "Hey I like Black Metal and Doom Metal, favorites are Darkthrone and Candlemass, recs?"

i agree, if you wanted to listen to black metal or doom metal and got tool as a response, that would be obnoxious

good thing i never said anything about black metal or doom metal

Quote

Theoretically, yes

Well, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard.

So, what about people like me?

You know, people who don't give a cunt about the tempo or the fucking time signature or any of that shit? What would I ask? Because if I asked for metal, and you gave me Tool, I'd be happy. If you gave me Iron Maiden, I'd be just as happy. Because they're like Tool, but different!

you're acting like i'm trying to say justin bieber is metal

clum clum · December 11, 2014, 05:09:00 PM

This fucking thread.

Emo is objectively better than all of this.

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:09:32 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:05:41 PM

Classical music has subgenres, yes, but it does NOT make them the same at all.

"they're the same genre, but they're not the same genre"

wow

fuck this

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:09:35 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:10:58 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Jim · December 11, 2014, 05:11:49 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

aREALgod · December 11, 2014, 05:12:43 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 05:09:32 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:05:41 PM
Classical music has subgenres, yes, but it does NOT make them the same at all.
"they're the same genre, but they're not the same genre"

wow

fuck this

THEY ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SUBGENRES.

Did you not read the rest of the post explaining how or why? THE CORE OF MUSICAL THEORY IS BASED AROUND GENRES AND THE STRUCTURE OF MUSIC AND IS EXACTLY WHY CLASSICAL MUSIC HAS SUBGENRES. The classical music of Bach is not going to be the same as that of Claude Debussy BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND MUSICAL STRUCTURE.

clum clum · December 11, 2014, 05:13:33 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:12:43 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:05:41 PM
Classical music has subgenres, yes, but it does NOT make them the same at all.
"they're the same genre, but they're not the same genre"

wow

fuck this

THEY ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SUBGENRES.

Did you not read the rest of the post explaining how or why? THE CORE OF MUSICAL THEORY IS BASED AROUND GENRES AND THE STRUCTURE OF MUSIC AND IS EXACTLY WHY CLASSICAL MUSIC HAS SUBGENRES. The classical music of Bach is not going to be the same as that of Claude Debussy BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND MUSICAL STRUCTURE.

DAS B00T x2 · December 11, 2014, 05:13:35 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 04:58:44 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 04:55:38 PM
You DO realize there are also different genres of classical music, right? Romantic, Baroque, etc?
yes

but they're still classical music

just like tool is just a different kind of metal, but it's still metal

YouTube

One of these is a mathematically organized movement creating via instilled values of a mass school of thought. The other is Chopin. Learn the difference, it could save my sanity.

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:14:31 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:12:43 PM

THEY ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SUBGENRES.

Did you not read the rest of the post explaining how or why? THE CORE OF MUSICAL THEORY IS BASED AROUND GENRES AND THE STRUCTURE OF MUSIC AND IS EXACTLY WHY CLASSICAL MUSIC HAS SUBGENRES. The classical music of Bach is not going to be the same as that of Claude Debussy BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND MUSICAL STRUCTURE.

that's like saying a sub isn't a sandwich

because it's a sub, not a sandwich

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:15:22 PM

also, i don't really understand what progressive rock even really is, but whenever i ask that, people usually tell me to listen to comfortably numb by pink floyd

take the song comfortably numb
and then take vicarious by tool

say the words, "these two songs are the same genre"

aaand you have the stupidest possible statement
ever

Aether · December 11, 2014, 05:15:53 PM

The only thing saying, "Tool is not Metal" conveys is that you don't think Tool is Metal.

Genres are subjective. Yeah sure, we've established basic characteristics to categorize each genre for the sake of classification and organization, but there is no ultimate omnipotent being or mysterious musical law of the universe that objects exactly what any specific band or artist has to be classified as.

DAS B00T x2 · December 11, 2014, 05:16:13 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 05:14:31 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:12:43 PM
THEY ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SUBGENRES.

Did you not read the rest of the post explaining how or why? THE CORE OF MUSICAL THEORY IS BASED AROUND GENRES AND THE STRUCTURE OF MUSIC AND IS EXACTLY WHY CLASSICAL MUSIC HAS SUBGENRES. The classical music of Bach is not going to be the same as that of Claude Debussy BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND MUSICAL STRUCTURE.
that's like saying a sub isn't a sandwich

because it's a sub, not a sandwich

But it's different from a burger, and especially different from an open face sandwich, which I argue isn't even a sandwich at all.

Verbatim · December 11, 2014, 05:18:30 PM

Quote from: DAS B00TINATOR on December 11, 2014, 05:16:13 PM

But it's different from a burger, and especially different from an open face sandwich, which I argue isn't even a sandwich at all.

if it's not a sandwich, but it has "sandwich" in its name, it's called a misnomer
i don't know what an open face sandwich is, so i'll ignore that example

i consider burgers sandwiches too.

what i'm getting from this is that you people just don't like speaking in broad terms when it comes to music.
...i do. i don't see why it's even a big deal

aREALgod · December 11, 2014, 05:19:02 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 11, 2014, 05:14:31 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 11, 2014, 05:12:43 PM
THEY ARE NOT, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE SUBGENRES.

Did you not read the rest of the post explaining how or why? THE CORE OF MUSICAL THEORY IS BASED AROUND GENRES AND THE STRUCTURE OF MUSIC AND IS EXACTLY WHY CLASSICAL MUSIC HAS SUBGENRES. The classical music of Bach is not going to be the same as that of Claude Debussy BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY AND MUSICAL STRUCTURE.
that's like saying a sub isn't a sandwich

because it's a sub, not a sandwich

No, that is not what I'm saying. You are saying that all of music theory and how music is and has been made is wrong. A sub is a different kind of sandwich than others. But is it the same as other sandwiches? No.