For once in your life, take a stand with pride

June 15, 2017, 10:58:07 PM

I don't understand how you stand to the side

Spoiler

I also don't understand how I'm still the only hamilton fan here, I don't even watch musicals. It actually reminds me more of an old radio play but with music (in terms of plotting and such). Also, the characterization is so spot on

actual spoiler

"Hamilton's pace is relentless, he wastes no time ... He has something to prove, he has nothing to lose." Hamilton is an immigrant idealist who, unlike everyone else in the American political world, had no ties to a respected family or house. He doesn't even care about that though, and pushes forward as if he has that backing, even though all he has is his strong idealism. He likewise doesn't care about power or status, just his legacy and making America great. This is in comparison to Burr, who's late father literally owned Princeton, who's grandfather wrote "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", and who's mother was one of the few women in the time praised for her wit and intelligence. He doesn't care about idealism, he cares about making the spirits of his family proud ("If there's a reason I'm still alive, when so many who loved me have died, I'm willing to wait for it...") and similarly to Hamilton, his legacy. Interestingly, though, while Hamilton cares about his legacy in terms of his acts, Burr cares about them in terms of who he is, his status.
And even though in the vast period of British/American history before this, the above conditions would have let Burr dominate Hamilton, this is the one time when being a young idealist with no political ties is more helpful than being from a respected family. Hamilton wears everything on his sleeve, which allows him to make connections and friends, but Burr "keeps [his] plans close to [his] chest", which may be politically savvy, but causes no one to trust him. Hamilton even says this himself when he endorses Jefferson over Burr: "I have never agreed with Jefferson once - we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts...but when all is said and all is done, Jefferson has beliefs - Burr has none."
Despite all of this, the similarities between Hamilton and Burr are what make the show. The song above is the best example of this, but there are so many other examples, it would be impossible to list them all. One good example, though: "You're an orphan? Of course! I'm an orphan! God, I wish there was a war where we could prove we're worth more than anyone bargained for" <<< Hamilton in the very first song, actually way overestimating how similar he and Burr are. They're both orphans, sure, but Hamilton makes the mistake in thinking that means they're both disdained/seen as worthless - when really Burr's orphan status doesn't make him an undesirable due to his family. In the sense of their attitudes in the world - idealism vs practicality, activity vs passivity, openness vs savviness, they're opposites. But the best moments are when you see how similar they really are as people.
Burr's whole watchword being "wait" (Wait For It, "wait here and see which way the wind will blow", "the Revolution's imminent, what do you stall for?") is tragically resolved with his last active (non-narration) line literally being "WAIT!" as he tries to take away his shot as soon as he shoots it. The one time their roles are switched (Hamilton being passive and throwing away his shot, Burr being active and taking his) is the one time when Burr should have actually waited for it.

I wrote way more than this and had to delete it, I might actually do a better-constructed longer analysis of this show for News

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM

Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 16, 2017, 12:12:43 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM

Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.

Tbh it's only interesting as it relates to the Anglo-French Wars (specifically the Seven Years War and the Anglo-French War of 1783) and the issues of Colonialism.

June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM

Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.

UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

June 16, 2017, 12:17:38 AM

the American Revolution is the backdrop of the play, the setting

not the subject

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:19:25 AM

Quote from: Aria on June 16, 2017, 12:12:43 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
Tbh it's only interesting as it relates to the Anglo-French Wars (specifically the Seven Years War and the Anglo-French War of 1783) and the issues of Colonialism.

My historical interest in the west basically drops off with the Norman conquest of England, but ye.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:19:25 AM

Quote from: Aria on June 16, 2017, 12:12:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
Tbh it's only interesting as it relates to the Anglo-French Wars (specifically the Seven Years War and the Anglo-French War of 1783) and the issues of Colonialism.

My historical interest in the west basically drops off with the Norman conquest of England, but ye.

Colonial India is much more interesting than Colonial America, anyways.

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

Yeah, but since I don't care about the revolution, I don't really care about Burr or Hamilton.

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: Aria on June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:19:25 AM
Quote from: Aria on June 16, 2017, 12:12:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
Tbh it's only interesting as it relates to the Anglo-French Wars (specifically the Seven Years War and the Anglo-French War of 1783) and the issues of Colonialism.

My historical interest in the west basically drops off with the Norman conquest of England, but ye.
Colonial India is much more interesting than Colonial America, anyways.

I'll take your word for it.

June 16, 2017, 12:23:08 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

Yeah, but since I don't care about the revolution, I don't really care about Burr or Hamilton.

um are people defined by their time periods? lol?

"I don't care about Elvis because I don't care about Vietnam"

June 16, 2017, 12:23:34 AM

most of the issues/conflicts in Hamilton are personal-based, they don't have a thing to do with the war or America

🍁 Aria 🔮 · June 16, 2017, 12:29:55 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:17:38 AM

the American Revolution is the backdrop of the play, the setting

not the subject

He created the federal bank, irredeemable. Andrew Jackson did the right thing, even if it bounced back eventually.

June 16, 2017, 12:32:19 AM

Quote from: Aria on June 16, 2017, 12:29:55 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:17:38 AM
the American Revolution is the backdrop of the play, the setting

not the subject
He created the federal bank, irredeemable. Andrew Jackson did the right thing, even if it bounced back eventually.

Federal bank was necessary for that time period, it made the rest of the world see america as a legitimate nation that could fund/take loans.

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:32:25 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:23:08 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

Yeah, but since I don't care about the revolution, I don't really care about Burr or Hamilton.
um are people defined by their time periods? lol?

"I don't care about Elvis because I don't care about Vietnam"

No, but he held significant influence on the foundation of early America, which was a significant part of the revolutionary time period. And while it's all well and good to find a person's story to be gripping due to who they were as a person rather than the times in which they influenced; and I certainly feel that this is an important aspect of history, that's just not what I generally find stimulating to dig into.

June 16, 2017, 12:33:28 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:32:25 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:23:08 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

Yeah, but since I don't care about the revolution, I don't really care about Burr or Hamilton.
um are people defined by their time periods? lol?

"I don't care about Elvis because I don't care about Vietnam"

No, but he held significant influence on the foundation of early America, which was a significant part of the revolutionary time period. And while it's all well and good to find a person's story to be gripping due to who they were as a person rather than the times in which they influenced; and I certainly feel that this is an important aspect of history, that's just not what I generally find stimulating to dig into.

Fair enough. I just don't want people to see Hamilton as a "history play", because as Ian can tell you lol, it's not

Ushan · June 16, 2017, 12:41:42 AM

Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:33:28 AM

Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:23:08 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Annie on June 16, 2017, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Ushan on June 16, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Honestly, I just don't care enough about the American Revolution to try and invest my attention in it.

But it's nice that Alexander Hamilton got some public attention.
UGH, LMM needs to do a psa about this sentiment or something

the play is NOT about the American Revolution, France, the formation of America, politics, or anything else like that

It's about Hamilton and Burr - their friendship, their rivalry, their differences and similarities, and of course their tragic end. Burr isn't even a supporting character or antagonist, he's a straight up deuteragonist. The play may as well have been called "Hamilton & Burr"

Yeah, but since I don't care about the revolution, I don't really care about Burr or Hamilton.
um are people defined by their time periods? lol?

"I don't care about Elvis because I don't care about Vietnam"

No, but he held significant influence on the foundation of early America, which was a significant part of the revolutionary time period. And while it's all well and good to find a person's story to be gripping due to who they were as a person rather than the times in which they influenced; and I certainly feel that this is an important aspect of history, that's just not what I generally find stimulating to dig into.
Fair enough. I just don't want people to see Hamilton as a "history play", because as Ian can tell you lol, it's not

The rapping was a tip off

June 16, 2017, 12:44:30 AM

fun fact: when my sister showed Hamilton to me for the first time I thought it was retarded and refused to give it a chance

it reminded me of that cliche where the inner city teacher reaches her kids through rap and hip hop, I thought it was going to be some cheesy black lives matter kind of thing

really glad I stopped being stupid