Can We Talk About the Best Anime of This Season?

Arren · September 11, 2016, 10:28:18 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:10:01 PM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.
If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.

I think Miura succeeded with eclipse in what he wanted to establish. It provides the reader with a clear sense of Guts' motives for vengeance, and we can empathize with him. I think Miura had enough for Guts to swear vengeance without Casca's rape,

Spoiler

but if you look at Griffith's past actions, it makes sense why he does it. He's a covetous and spiteful character.

Considering Casca's worth to the story after eclipse events, it would make more sense in my mind for Casca to die there, it could establish the same sentiment without having the undertones of violating "another man's woman."

Dietrich Six · September 11, 2016, 10:48:15 PM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:28:18 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.
If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.
I think Miura succeeded with eclipse in what he wanted to establish. It provides the reader with a clear sense of Guts' motives for vengeance, and we can empathize with him. I think Miura had enough for Guts to swear vengeance without Casca's rape,
Spoiler
but if you look at Griffith's past actions, it makes sense why he does it. He's a covetous and spiteful character.
Considering Casca's worth to the story after eclipse events, it would make more sense in my mind for Casca to die there, it could establish the same sentiment without having the undertones of violating "another man's woman."

Again you're just proving my point. She becomes a motivation, a plot point, not a person.

Arren · September 11, 2016, 10:56:00 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 11, 2016, 09:58:22 PM

I know nothing of the first two things you said. Ghibli films are tolerable, but to my understanding, they tend to make films with Western sensibilities in mind. Because they understand they have a huge market over here.

The last one I've seen is My Neighbor Totoro over a decade ago, though. There's also a fun game on PS1 called Jade Cocoon: Story of the Tamamayu which uses Studio Ghibli animation, but a show was never made.

I find it odd that you've never heard of Mushishi, it's one of the go-to shows when describing anime that defy media stereotypes. It's one of my favorites, and the reason why is kind of complicated. I'll say this about it: It portrays the bittersweetness of life like an atmospheric meditation in a 'super-natural' world. It's my favorite kind of story-telling, and there are only a few shows I've seen that pull it off to any personal effect. This is one of them.

Jin Roh is a story of military espionage with allegorical references to Little Red Riding Hood. The allegory is heavy-handed, but the other film aspects are pretty solid in my opinion, from composition to sound design and animation. Many critics of the movie upon release called it bleak and depressing without praising its merits. I get the impression they don't like it because it isn't a feel-good story or because they are particularly biased towards expression in anime as opposed to live-action media. It was a good movie. I ended up enjoying it more than Akira.

big sponge · September 11, 2016, 11:02:06 PM

Been rewatching FMA:B, I probably enjoy it more now than I did during my first run through it.

Arren · September 11, 2016, 11:03:04 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:48:15 PM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.
If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.
I think Miura succeeded with eclipse in what he wanted to establish. It provides the reader with a clear sense of Guts' motives for vengeance, and we can empathize with him. I think Miura had enough for Guts to swear vengeance without Casca's rape,
Spoiler
but if you look at Griffith's past actions, it makes sense why he does it. He's a covetous and spiteful character.
Considering Casca's worth to the story after eclipse events, it would make more sense in my mind for Casca to die there, it could establish the same sentiment without having the undertones of violating "another man's woman."

Again you're just proving my point. She becomes a motivation, a plot point, not a person.

I was adding more ideas to broaden the discussion if anyone wanted to.

Arren · September 11, 2016, 11:25:37 PM

Quote from: LC on September 11, 2016, 11:02:06 PM

Been rewatching FMA:B, I probably enjoy it more now than I did during my first run through it.

Your avatar reminds me that I have to rewatch Cowboy Bebop at some point. On my first watch through I only started to really get into it at the end. When I rewatched Mushishi at the beginning of the summer I enjoyed it more than I did watching it around the first time, especially the middle of the show when it was focusing on Ginko as a character and what it meant to be a Mushishi.

What stands out now that didn't before?

Dietrich Six · September 11, 2016, 11:28:30 PM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 11:03:04 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:48:15 PM
Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.
If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

Her life is ruined for plot. This is not how you respect your female characters.
I think Miura succeeded with eclipse in what he wanted to establish. It provides the reader with a clear sense of Guts' motives for vengeance, and we can empathize with him. I think Miura had enough for Guts to swear vengeance without Casca's rape,
Spoiler
but if you look at Griffith's past actions, it makes sense why he does it. He's a covetous and spiteful character.
Considering Casca's worth to the story after eclipse events, it would make more sense in my mind for Casca to die there, it could establish the same sentiment without having the undertones of violating "another man's woman."

Again you're just proving my point. She becomes a motivation, a plot point, not a person.
I was adding more ideas to broaden the discussion if anyone wanted to.

I like to argue very specific points because I'm unable to understand broader concepts.

My brain is full of holes from the drugs and alcohol.

big sponge · September 12, 2016, 12:57:38 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 11:25:37 PM

Quote from: LC on September 11, 2016, 11:02:06 PM
Been rewatching FMA:B, I probably enjoy it more now than I did during my first run through it.
Your avatar reminds me that I have to rewatch Cowboy Bebop at some point. On my first watch through I only started to really get into it at the end. When I rewatched Mushishi at the beginning of the summer I enjoyed it more than I did watching it around the first time, especially the middle of the show when it was focusing on Ginko as a character and what it meant to be a Mushishi.

What stands out now that didn't before?

i'm probably enjoying it more because i already know how the story pans out which lets the stuff going on sink in more and allows me to notice details about things i didn't before

also i'm seeing areas where the story could be improved

R o c k e t · September 12, 2016, 01:08:18 AM

Quote from: Varg on September 11, 2016, 08:15:43 PM

anime is bad and you should feel bad

But Re:Zero is pretty good ;__;

ಠ_ಠ · September 12, 2016, 02:18:31 AM

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on September 12, 2016, 01:08:18 AM

Quote from: Varg on September 11, 2016, 08:15:43 PM
anime is bad and you should feel bad

But Re:Zero is pretty good ;__;

no

Flee · September 12, 2016, 02:46:11 AM

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SecondClass · September 12, 2016, 02:53:55 AM

SAO is a masterpiece of writing and Kirito is a layered and complex protagonist

Arren · September 12, 2016, 08:48:12 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on September 12, 2016, 02:53:55 AM

Kirito is a layered and complex protagonist

Yeah in the abridged version.

Ian · September 12, 2016, 09:31:00 AM

Eva never amplified the tropes it was pointing out, but instead turned them on their head. You think you're getting a trope you like but then you go and notice the real problems that come with it.

>Want a Tsundere red head that dominates you trope? Okay, but she's a psychotic bitch with mommy issues and will have a mental breakdown regardless of whether or not you treat her right or how she wants you to treat her.
>Want a cute reserved blue haired girl trope instead? Alright, but she's not actually fucking human and she'll fall apart on you before you reach second base. There's no normalcy with her.
>Shinji gains crazy power level bullshit to save his love interest trope, but the next movie shows he blew up the world doing it and everyone now hates him.

The TV series started with generic mecha vs. kaiju action anime, then gets darker and darker in the latter half and spends more time on the characters than the in-universe mechanics. The last two episodes being only about the character's growth. It baited people into being just another run of the mill anime about giant robots then pulled the rug out from under them half way and the new movies are no different, proving Anno still tries to go against the grain twenty years later.

Quote from: Verbatim on September 11, 2016, 08:51:53 PM

The only way anime knows how to "deconstruct" its own tropes is by amplifying them to extremity (Kill la Kill, Panty & Stocking, One Punch Man, Me!Me!Me!), which is lazy, uncreative, boring, and almost as obnoxious as the tropes themselves.

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 09:33:42 AM

That's not Lesbian Scubas

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 09:35:04 AM

YouTube

also no

Ian · September 12, 2016, 09:38:17 AM

I have yet to watch DIU, is it like Stardust Crusaders where it's nothing but fucking filler?

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:35:04 AM

YouTube

also no

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 09:39:06 AM

How was SC filler?

Ian · September 12, 2016, 09:41:58 AM

Every episode or every three episodes the gang was always getting caught by some no name villain who was just a henchman of Dio that really did nothing but slow down the show. Regardless of whether or not it was a legitimate part of the story (As I have not read the manga) it really drew it out longer than it needed to. A perfect example is that fucking baby that tried to kill them in their sleep, it did nothing for the journey as a whole since only one member remembered the whole thing and it felt like a waste of an episode.

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:39:06 AM

How was SC filler?

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 09:48:07 AM

That's the whole part of the show, its how it went down in the manga, Dio sent as many 'followers' to slow them down so he had time to learn his body and grow strong, thats not filler.

That made it longer and gave it more fights to behold, I don't see the bad part since the intention of that is to slow them down.
Some stands were pretty pathetic, such as the baby and the car stand, but others showed how the 'crew' if you would, handles things under pressure. Polnareff is the best example here, without all his fights with the bads, he wouldn't have developed into one of my favourites, his fight with the Doll, Hol and vanilla ice all drew out an emotion in him and showed his powers grow (if you forget how the writer forgot about his most OP skill cough) which made him grow as a character.

The baby was boring, but so was Cactus man in Part 2.

Arren · September 12, 2016, 09:59:34 AM

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:33:42 AM

That's not Lesbian Scubas

I haven't seen this anime... I don't want to see this anime... but if DemoD made a review of it, I'd watch that. I'd watch anything he made at this point.

Please come back Demo.

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 12, 2016, 09:59:34 AM

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:33:42 AM
That's not Lesbian Scubas
I haven't seen this anime... I don't want to see this anime... but if DemoD made a review of it, I'd watch that. I'd watch anything he made at this point.

Please come back Demo.

It's pretty good though

Arren · September 12, 2016, 10:02:57 AM

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 12, 2016, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:33:42 AM
That's not Lesbian Scubas
I haven't seen this anime... I don't want to see this anime... but if DemoD made a review of it, I'd watch that. I'd watch anything he made at this point.

Please come back Demo.
It's pretty good though

...Alright, what's it called?

True Turquoise · September 12, 2016, 10:05:34 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 12, 2016, 10:02:57 AM

Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: Arren on September 12, 2016, 09:59:34 AM
Quote from: True Turquoise on September 12, 2016, 09:33:42 AM
That's not Lesbian Scubas
I haven't seen this anime... I don't want to see this anime... but if DemoD made a review of it, I'd watch that. I'd watch anything he made at this point.

Please come back Demo.
It's pretty good though
...Alright, what's it called?

Oh the way you replied, I assumed you knew what I was on about.

Amanchu.

Arren · September 12, 2016, 10:08:45 AM

Quote from: Flee on September 12, 2016, 02:46:11 AM

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on September 12, 2016, 01:08:18 AM
Quote from: Varg on September 11, 2016, 08:15:43 PM
anime is bad and you should feel bad

But Re:Zero is pretty good ;__;
Rocketman no

🍁 Aria 🔮 · September 12, 2016, 10:46:17 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 11, 2016, 10:07:13 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on September 11, 2016, 09:40:10 PM
Casca also gets raped and gives birth to a demon baby...

Casca herself, not the events surrounding her. She's a strong character with her own personality, and isn't just there for eye candy (since, y'know, she wears full body armor and not a string bikini or whatever).

She was also raped to move the plot forward.

Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.

She gives birth to a rape baby, loses her memory, forgets guts and the love she had for him, and then becomes a non character. She's a fucking child afterward.
If Miura wanted fans to view her as a tragic figure fallen from glory he should have emphasized her regularly and with Guts, not pushed into the background and babysat by a less relevant character (Farmesse) for the majority of their adventures. Miura does have scenes of her and Guts, reminding fans that their relationship is still fragmented, but the story events take precedence for too long and their situation loses its immediacy. Casca can (probably) be healed by the fairy queen (smh) anyway.

>implying she's not going to just off herself or run off to find Griffith again

Falconia is pretty deceiving, but we have to remember that good things don't happen to Guts.

Ender · September 12, 2016, 10:48:21 AM

Arren · September 12, 2016, 11:00:30 AM

Quote from: Primemes on September 12, 2016, 10:46:17 AM

>implying she's not going to just off herself or run off to find Griffith again

The former might end the escapades of "Guts and Friends" tone the series acquired after the other characters joined Guts and Puck. It would still make Casca a plot convenience and it would be a disservice to her charcter, but she might actually do something for the story again.
Going after Griffith would be better because it would affirm the purpose of the story and her vegetative character arc could also be justified in the name of vengeance she seeks afterwards. Her and Guts could be the dream team again.

Quote

Falconia is pretty deceiving, but we have to remember that good things don't happen to Guts.

Oh... So 'on the boat' was just an illusion. They're still in the troll den, aren't they?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · September 12, 2016, 11:07:02 AM

Quote from: Arren on September 12, 2016, 11:00:30 AM

Quote from: Primemes on September 12, 2016, 10:46:17 AM
>implying she's not going to just off herself or run off to find Griffith again
The former might end the escapades of "Guts and Friends" tone the series acquired after the other characters joined Guts and Puck. It would still make Casca a plot convenience and it would be a disservice to her charcter, but she might actually do something for the story again.
Going after Griffith would be better because it would affirm the purpose of the story and her vegetative character arc could also be justified in the name of vengeance she seeks afterwards. Her and Guts could be the dream team again.

Nah, all signs have been pointing to her getting the memories back as being a bad end. When Skelie tells you it's a bad idea, it's probably a bad idea.

Quote

Quote
Falconia is pretty deceiving, but we have to remember that good things don't happen to Guts.
Oh... So 'on the boat' was just an illusion. They're still in the troll den, aren't they?

What? No. I mean that Falconia is this explosion of magic in the world, turning it into generic JRPG party antics. That's going to end as soon as Griffith enacts his plan or finds out where Skellig is. Essentially, Falconia is just the middle of Golden Age except more pleasant. It's going to get worse, like it always does.

Verbatim · September 12, 2016, 11:21:09 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on September 11, 2016, 10:02:35 PM

Quote from: Caped Baldy on September 11, 2016, 09:53:47 PM
Yet still manages to be a strong character nonetheless.

I thought Verbatim would like that virtually all sex is portrayed negatively.
And in general, I'd hate to grow attached to some cool character only to watch them get raped. That's, like... No.

i feel like expanding on this a bit because this can easily be misconstrued as me not wanting anything bad to happen to female characters, which is what a lot of anti-fems seem to think about statements like that

Conflict is the most important thing about any story--without conflict, there is no story. If a character isn't put through hell in some way, then there's no reason to care about their life or whatever it is they're trying to accomplish.

Here's the thing, though--you still have to write conflict well. You can't have what's called "conflict for the sake of conflict," or conflict for the sake of moving the plot forward, instead of being an organic presence throughout the story.

When I say I don't want to see a female character get raped, it's not just because rape is an unpleasant and extremely touchy subject matter that makes me viscerally uncomfortable. I loved the Millenium trilogy (Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, etc), and that series is filled with rape--BUT, it still managed to write them in intelligent and non-indulgent ways. They disgusted me, but they never offended me. The rape scenes are not erotic--they're disturbing, as they should be. They're not trying to entice the viewer--they want the victim to rise up later in the film and KILL that motherfucker. Or whatever. Revenge plots are lazy, but satisfying--it's the easiest way to pull off a rape scene without making me cringe with how edgy you're trying to be.

Berserk goes out of its way to take the offensive route. It tries to make it erotic--you can tell by the way the scenes are drawn. That's what I take umbrage with. And if what Dietrich is saying is correct, the fact that her character gets basically destroyed afterwards certainly doesn't do it any favors for me.

So I'm not saying women can never get raped in fiction--just, if you're gonna try it out, you have to do it with respect--and that's clearly not Berserk's mission statement. Berserk is just A Serbian Film--dumb shock value of the sake of dumb shock value. Edge for the sake of edge. I see no value in that.