This is now a classic Xbox Live lobby thread.

๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
How is a word inherently racist?
Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.
I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.

That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it.  I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.
Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.

I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?
Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:37:43 PM by ๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.

Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurge
What exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.

It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.

Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situation

Just on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the word

You accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance   
What the fuck are you blathering on about? You literally just refuted your own case. Yeah, the word has history behind it. Hence why white people shouldn't be using it sans in very limited circumstances, i.e. in an acting performance.

Not everything has to have this super grey moral gradient to it. Sometimes things really are just unambiguous.

Alright let me break it down for you since you have the processing power of an ant

Racism is bad.
Racism means barriers between races.
The word nigger sets up barriers between races.
The use of the word nigger perpetuates barriers between races.
Barriers between races means racism.
The use of the word nigger perpetuates racism.

Nobody should use the word nigger honestly. But since we have this weird situation where black people use it (and have valid reasons for doing so), it's appropriate to have discussions about it that don't fall into the binary choice you set up
Lol, what barriers are being placed around you when black people use the n word exactly? If it's because you can't use the word within the parameters of a polite society as much as you'd like then you've really got nothing more to offer to the conversation other than your closeted racism.


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
Yeah but that would be a total assumption. I really cant stand collectivism in general.

I'm not really trying to defend the use of the word so much as I'm trying to figure out why people believe the act of using it is what is racist instead of the person's intentions behind it.
i don't think anyone believes that, thoughโ€”nobody in this thread, at least

mordo gave you the acting example, which means that he clearly realizes intention matters

i don't see anyone trying to argue that it's the act itself that's racist

YouTube

Well I don't think anyone actually really believes I am. I would hope not.

Perhaps I got the wrong impression from Mordo? I just didn't know whether he would consider the scenario I explained to be racist, as I would not. As you said, I would see it as impolite. He seems to believe it is racist though as his response would tell me, regardless of if the white person had any racist intentions.

I think that's something we're probably just not going to see eye to eye.


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Then stop using it. It's unnecessary.

This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.

Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it


 
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Well I don't think anyone actually really believes I am. I would hope not.

Perhaps I got the wrong impression from Mordo? I just didn't know whether he would consider the scenario I explained to be racist, as I would not. As you said, I would see it as impolite. He seems to believe it is racist though as his response would tell me, regardless of if the white person had any racist intentions.

I think that's something we're probably just not going to see eye to eye.
it doesn't help that you're both incredibly obtuse people

he said that it would be racist because of the word's centuries of racist history

this sort of innately implies that, if you so happen to be ignorant of such history, then it wouldn't be racist

there, does that make you happy or something
Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:50:56 PM by Verbatim


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Who's being "binary" now?


Ingy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.

Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurge
What exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.

It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.

Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situation

Just on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the word

You accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance   
What the fuck are you blathering on about? You literally just refuted your own case. Yeah, the word has history behind it. Hence why white people shouldn't be using it sans in very limited circumstances, i.e. in an acting performance.

Not everything has to have this super grey moral gradient to it. Sometimes things really are just unambiguous.

Alright let me break it down for you since you have the processing power of an ant

Racism is bad.
Racism means barriers between races.
The word nigger sets up barriers between races.
The use of the word nigger perpetuates barriers between races.
Barriers between races means racism.
The use of the word nigger perpetuates racism.

Nobody should use the word nigger honestly. But since we have this weird situation where black people use it (and have valid reasons for doing so), it's appropriate to have discussions about it that don't fall into the binary choice you set up
Lol, what barriers are being placed around you when black people use the n word exactly? If it's because you can't use the word within the parameters of a polite society as much as you'd like then you've really got nothing more to offer to the conversation other than your closeted racism.

I'm talking about the principle of the matter. In real life, of course I never used the word and I don't make a fuss when black people use it around me. I'm talking about race relations in America broadly. It seems we're drifting apart more than coming together. And drifting apart by choice unfortunately. I just think the circumstances around the word exacerbates that effect


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
How is a word inherently racist?
Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.
I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.

That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it.  I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.
Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.

I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?
I'm saying that the meaning itself isn't absolute. The take away from my post is that it's possible for someone to say a slur without any ill intentions or prejudice. So I was curious as to whether or not you (or originally Mordo) would say that a person doing that is a racist.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
How is a word inherently racist?
Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.
I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.

That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it.  I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.
Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.

I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?
I'm saying that the meaning itself isn't absolute. The take away from my post is that it's possible for someone to say a slur without any ill intentions or prejudice. So I was curious as to whether or not you (or originally Mordo) would say that a person doing that is a racist.
Yes.

That's what I would call ignorant racism.
Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:57:15 PM by Mordo


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
Yes.

That's what I would call ignorant racism.
I think that clears things up, thanks.

I'm assuming you mean that the person doesn't actually hate whatever specific minority but just isn't understanding how they are being insensitive.


 
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i already cleared that shit up

it didn't even need clearing up in the first place


Ingy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Who's being "binary" now?

You're right, races should continue to back off into their own corners but at least they'll have the word nigger


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Who's being "binary" now?

You're right, races should continue to back off into their own corners but at least they'll have the word nigger
The fact that you spare no expense in using the word continually throughout the discussion is only proving my point further.


๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Then stop using it. It's unnecessary.

This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.

Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
The crux of the debate is understanding reclaimed language.


Ingy | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Then stop using it. It's unnecessary.

This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.

Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
The crux of the debate is understanding reclaimed language.

I understand it. I'm just asking if it's helpful to continue it and where we go from here


๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
So I was curious as to whether or not you (or originally Mordo) would say that a person doing that is a racist.
American culture skews racist (more predominantly in some places than others), and that affects our judgement of whether something is racist or not. What we can do is correct that behavior once it's been pointed out, so that's whether I would qualify a person racist or not.
Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 02:40:12 PM by ๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ


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Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Who's being "binary" now?
He's right though


๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Then stop using it. It's unnecessary.

This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.

Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
The crux of the debate is understanding reclaimed language.

I understand it. I'm just asking if it's helpful to continue it and where we go from here
Dropping the concept of reclaimed language before its power has been eliminated is like sending people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't eliminate the problem, it gives it strength. We accept that there is a history and stigma associated with language and help in the destruction of it by not supporting it.
Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 02:39:02 PM by ๐Ÿ Aria ๐Ÿ”ฎ


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Dropping the concept of reclaimed language before its power has been eliminated is like sending people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't eliminate the problem, it gives it strength. We accept that there is a history and stigma associated with language and help in the destruction of it by not supporting it.
So what is the end-goal of this? I haven't read the forbidden knowledge yet.


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Signature goes here.
I'll ignore the fact that there is a clear difference between "Nigga" and "Nigger". There are still consequences for black people using the word, at least there are consequences in the setting. No black person with a brain cell would use such terminology while at work or some public setting like a restaurant. It's just an informal setting like when you're at home with friends & family, in which case I will completely agree that everyone including white people have free access to the word, because how is anyone supposed to know it's being used?

With that being said, you may or may not remember an Asian-American band went before the Supreme Court for their right to call themselves "The Slants". A study showed that groups using their own pejoratives among themselves may help lessen the impact of such terms.

This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.

Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it


 
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.
While historical context is important to consider, I can't help but to feel that making certain words "forbidden" just gives them more power. Genuine racists become emboldened, and the only response people have is "cancelling" them on social media or trying to get them fired from their jobs.

It's all so tiresome.


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His eyebrows sparkling, his white beard hangs down to his chest. The thatched mats, spread outside his chise, spread softly, his splendid attos. He polishes, cross-legged, his makiri, with his eyes completely absorbed.

He is Ainu.

The god of Ainu Mosir, Ae-Oine Kamuy, descendant of Okiku-Rumi, He perishes, a living corpse. The summers day, the white sunlight, unabrushed, ends simply through his breath alone.
Dropping the concept of reclaimed language before its power has been eliminated is like sending people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't eliminate the problem, it gives it strength. We accept that there is a history and stigma associated with language and help in the destruction of it by not supporting it.
So what is the end-goal of this? I haven't read the forbidden knowledge yet.
Not the conclusion of the paper of course, but isn't effortlessly removing a racist element from society simple and easy enough? I definitely think I'm putting way more effort in writing any of this than what I should for how strongly I feel.

There isn't a reason to feel strongly enough to say a word, especially one that a large number of people don't want me to say. I don't understand why people feel strongly enough about it to ask the question.


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how the fuck did this become about racism the boy just wanna say the n word


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how the fuck did this become about racism the boy just wanna say the n word
Another day another bait thread


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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
how the fuck did this become about racism the boy just wanna say the n word
Another day another bait thread
Bring them on. The more activity, the better.


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No disintegrations!
off topic but the term "people of color" always sounded dumb to me.


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
I can't believe my most active thread is a shitpost with a semi-serious question at its root.

https://translate.google.ru/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=ru&text=Niger

Hit that 'Listen' button, fam.


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I can't believe my most active thread is a shitpost with a semi-serious question at its root.

https://translate.google.ru/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=ru&text=Niger

Hit that 'Listen' button, fam.
I can believe that, more so, I did expect that to happen because that's not the first time this happens.


 
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We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty
and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.."
I suppose we all thought that one way or another.
off topic but the term "people of color" always sounded dumb to me.
colored = super offensive and racist
people of color = 100% acceptable and encouraged

I just don't get it man


 
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off topic but the term "people of color" always sounded dumb to me.
colored = super offensive and racist
people of color = 100% acceptable and encouraged

I just don't get it man
it's called "people-first" language, because it's considered respectful to recognize people as people first, and whatever traits they happen to have second

"colored" makes it sound like an affliction, like "rabid" or "demented" or "retarded"โ€”these are words that put you into a box, which is part of why they're not PC anymore

you don't have to like it, but i think it makes perfect sense honestly
Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 03:09:01 PM by Verbatim