Quote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 01:00:52 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:55:01 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 12:24:47 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:18:53 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurgeWhat exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situationJust on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the wordYou accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance What the fuck are you blathering on about? You literally just refuted your own case. Yeah, the word has history behind it. Hence why white people shouldn't be using it sans in very limited circumstances, i.e. in an acting performance.Not everything has to have this super grey moral gradient to it. Sometimes things really are just unambiguous.Alright let me break it down for you since you have the processing power of an antRacism is bad. Racism means barriers between races.The word nigger sets up barriers between races.The use of the word nigger perpetuates barriers between races.Barriers between races means racism.The use of the word nigger perpetuates racism.Nobody should use the word nigger honestly. But since we have this weird situation where black people use it (and have valid reasons for doing so), it's appropriate to have discussions about it that don't fall into the binary choice you set up
Quote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:55:01 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 12:24:47 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:18:53 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurgeWhat exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situationJust on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the wordYou accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance What the fuck are you blathering on about? You literally just refuted your own case. Yeah, the word has history behind it. Hence why white people shouldn't be using it sans in very limited circumstances, i.e. in an acting performance.Not everything has to have this super grey moral gradient to it. Sometimes things really are just unambiguous.
Quote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 12:24:47 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:18:53 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurgeWhat exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situationJust on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the wordYou accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance
Quote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:18:53 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurgeWhat exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.
Quote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurge
"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.
Quote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 01:24:24 PMYeah but that would be a total assumption. I really cant stand collectivism in general.I'm not really trying to defend the use of the word so much as I'm trying to figure out why people believe the act of using it is what is racist instead of the person's intentions behind it.i don't think anyone believes that, though—nobody in this thread, at leastmordo gave you the acting example, which means that he clearly realizes intention mattersi don't see anyone trying to argue that it's the act itself that's racistYouTube
Yeah but that would be a total assumption. I really cant stand collectivism in general.I'm not really trying to defend the use of the word so much as I'm trying to figure out why people believe the act of using it is what is racist instead of the person's intentions behind it.
Then stop using it. It's unnecessary.
Well I don't think anyone actually really believes I am. I would hope not.Perhaps I got the wrong impression from Mordo? I just didn't know whether he would consider the scenario I explained to be racist, as I would not. As you said, I would see it as impolite. He seems to believe it is racist though as his response would tell me, regardless of if the white person had any racist intentions.I think that's something we're probably just not going to see eye to eye.
Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Quote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 01:12:18 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 01:00:52 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:55:01 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 12:24:47 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 12:18:53 PMQuote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 09:53:27 AM"The blackies get to say it so why can't I say it hmmmmst've" could not be any more of a white entitlement temper tantrum.Are you even here to discuss anything or just splurgeWhat exactly is there to discuss, pray tell? Either you're a racist who thinks it's acceptable for white people to say the word, however much you want to sugar coat it with bullshit rationale, or you aren't.It's not exactly a conversation brimming with heated debate.Well there is a word that perpetuates an us vs them situation when the goal is to not perpetuate an us vs them situationJust on its face having a word one group can use and another group can't is inherently discriminatory but on the other hand, the group also has been oppressed for centuries so there is history behind the wordYou accused me of boiling down an entire ethnicity to a single entity and here you are making this a binary argument with no nuance What the fuck are you blathering on about? You literally just refuted your own case. Yeah, the word has history behind it. Hence why white people shouldn't be using it sans in very limited circumstances, i.e. in an acting performance.Not everything has to have this super grey moral gradient to it. Sometimes things really are just unambiguous.Alright let me break it down for you since you have the processing power of an antRacism is bad. Racism means barriers between races.The word nigger sets up barriers between races.The use of the word nigger perpetuates barriers between races.Barriers between races means racism.The use of the word nigger perpetuates racism.Nobody should use the word nigger honestly. But since we have this weird situation where black people use it (and have valid reasons for doing so), it's appropriate to have discussions about it that don't fall into the binary choice you set upLol, what barriers are being placed around you when black people use the n word exactly? If it's because you can't use the word within the parameters of a polite society as much as you'd like then you've really got nothing more to offer to the conversation other than your closeted racism.
Quote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 01:18:24 PMQuote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 01:05:34 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it. I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?
Quote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 01:05:34 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it. I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.
Quote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.
How is a word inherently racist?
Quote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 08, 2020, 01:34:30 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 01:18:24 PMQuote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 08, 2020, 01:05:34 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it. I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?I'm saying that the meaning itself isn't absolute. The take away from my post is that it's possible for someone to say a slur without any ill intentions or prejudice. So I was curious as to whether or not you (or originally Mordo) would say that a person doing that is a racist.
Quote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 01:18:24 PMQuote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 08, 2020, 01:05:34 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it. I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.Language is a field created to impart information. Words are nothing but meaning. If you choose to use a slur rather than a non-stigmatized descriptor for a group, you're either declaring your intent really well or you're an idiot.I also don't believe the example you gave concerning another language is relevant. Language imparts meaning, with the context being first and foremost what language you're speaking. Affecting AAVE would immediately throw up red flags for casual racism, why wouldn't using a word that is specifically a slur?
Quote from: [emoji260] Aria [emoji326] on May 08, 2020, 01:05:34 PMQuote from: Aether on May 08, 2020, 12:39:41 PMHow is a word inherently racist?Slurs are derogatory by definition, and the use of them (outside of the field of reclaimed speech) cannot be justified outside of specific situations. The oppressing group using pejoratives reinforces the social stigmatization of the oppressed group and the status quo. "Words are just words" ignores the hundreds of years of abuse, dehumanization, and racism associated with that word. A black man was killed for jogging through a neighborhood fifteen minutes from his house, and nobody knew for two months because the system did its damnedest to cover it up. You can't make steps toward limiting societal imbalance while actively participating in a culture of stigmatization.I'm not asking what justification there is for using a word, though. What I'm getting at is how words literally have no meaning at all until we as humans give meaning to them, thus that meaning is not absolute. You have, for example, the word "negro," which can be seen as derogatory in English, but in Spanish it simply means the color black. Because of this, not every use of the word has a derogatory meaning or even a negative one.That isn't to say that because of this, people should just be able to go around saying slurs willy nilly and everyone else should just get over it. I'm only saying that there are plenty of instances where saying a racial slur isn't actually being racist. It's not the act of saying the word itself that is racist so much as it is the context behind it.
Yes. That's what I would call ignorant racism.
Quote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 01:46:39 PMEither everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past itWho's being "binary" now?
Quote from: Mordo on May 08, 2020, 01:50:54 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 01:46:39 PMEither everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past itWho's being "binary" now?You're right, races should continue to back off into their own corners but at least they'll have the word nigger
Quote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 01:31:38 PMThen stop using it. It's unnecessary.This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Quote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 01:46:39 PMQuote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 01:31:38 PMThen stop using it. It's unnecessary.This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past itThe crux of the debate is understanding reclaimed language.
So I was curious as to whether or not you (or originally Mordo) would say that a person doing that is a racist.
Quote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 02:25:41 PMQuote from: Ingy on May 08, 2020, 01:46:39 PMQuote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 01:31:38 PMThen stop using it. It's unnecessary.This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past itThe crux of the debate is understanding reclaimed language.I understand it. I'm just asking if it's helpful to continue it and where we go from here
Dropping the concept of reclaimed language before its power has been eliminated is like sending people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't eliminate the problem, it gives it strength. We accept that there is a history and stigma associated with language and help in the destruction of it by not supporting it.
This is really the crux of the debate. I have never used the word in real life nor do I intend to. I think everybody in this thread has the good sense to be reasonable in their everyday life. It's the principle of the matter where black people can say it and non black people can't. And when I say can't, I mean there are social consequences for using it. I understand where it comes from but should we should examine whether it is worth continuing if we want to get to a point where we see no differences between races.Either everyone say it or no one say it if we want to get past it
Quote from: 🍁 Aria 🔮 on May 08, 2020, 02:38:15 PMDropping the concept of reclaimed language before its power has been eliminated is like sending people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. It doesn't eliminate the problem, it gives it strength. We accept that there is a history and stigma associated with language and help in the destruction of it by not supporting it.So what is the end-goal of this? I haven't read the forbidden knowledge yet.
how the fuck did this become about racism the boy just wanna say the n word
Quote from: Solonoid on May 08, 2020, 04:25:49 PMhow the fuck did this become about racism the boy just wanna say the n wordAnother day another bait thread
I can't believe my most active thread is a shitpost with a semi-serious question at its root.https://translate.google.ru/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=ru&text=NigerHit that 'Listen' button, fam.
Quote from: Mmmmm Napalm on May 09, 2020, 04:23:28 AMoff topic but the term "people of color" always sounded dumb to me.colored = super offensive and racistpeople of color = 100% acceptable and encouragedI just don't get it man
off topic but the term "people of color" always sounded dumb to me.
idk man, I think using the word color/ed is silly regardless. Colored has a long/negative history of racist context, but it's also (PoC included) primarily used to describe black people. Other races/ethnicity are sort of an afterthought. "Non-white" sounds bad, but I also think our naming conventions for all this stuff is just bad/inadequate and ultimately kinda pointless to begin with. Like the way we define white, for example.
What I don't understand about the term "people of color" is that it still divides whites and all other races, which to me seems exactly like what white racists want to do.
This is now a classic Xbox Live lobby thread.
