Quote from: Ender on June 19, 2016, 03:58:35 PM

I turn 16 in october you nigger, I'm still 15

nah this is wrong

#blasted

Quote from: Ender on June 19, 2016, 04:02:13 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on June 19, 2016, 03:59:44 PM

Quote from: Ender on June 19, 2016, 03:58:35 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on June 19, 2016, 03:44:26 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 19, 2016, 03:44:04 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on June 19, 2016, 03:42:53 PM

she's 16

you're 20

so 4

i don't recall her ever mentioning turning 16

happened a while ago fam

I turn 16 in october you nigger, I'm still 15

nah this is wrong

no you're just retarded

well obviously but that has nothing to do with this

no

Because of the instant, effortless and flawless replicability of the object. The whole "stealing is bad" argument is primarily rooted in the fact that it hurts others. You don't steal because this means someone else faces negative consequences because of it. You steal an apple, the vendor loses out on a potential sale. It costs him money and lowers his income. But with software, there's no such downsides. The game's already made and it's in circulation. Making an extra copy of the game causes no harm to the developers. They're not even involved in the process, so it takes them zero time and effort. And most importantly, they don't lose out on a sale because of it, as the person never intended to buy their product in the first place.

yeah i saw this coming

I've made this argument to you before, and I'll do it again--it's the principle that matters more. The replicability of the product--no matter how instant, effortless, or flawless--is irrelevant. If a business says, "This costs $60," then that's your deal. If you can't pay that money, or the equivalent in your area, then you do not have the right to use that product. That's how it works.

It doesn't matter if no one's hurt by it, because that's summarily overturned by the mere principle that you have no right to use a product if you have not paid the listed price for it. That's the bottom line, and there's no getting around it.

If they wanted the product to be free, they would've made it so.

Rereading my reply makes me realize that it wasn't obvious that I was joking.

I don't pirate things

And by the way, it's very presumptuous of you to argue that you'd "never" buy the product. You don't know that for sure. There's no way that you could. You can't see the future.

I've bought games I never would've considered buying five years ago, like Halo: CE.

So that's not a logical defense; it's just a convenient, lazy excuse. It's convenient for you to presume you'd never do something--but the fact is, you simply can't know, so you can't presume. So it falls short as a legal, moral, and logical defense. You don't get free shit just because you want it. That's not how the world works.

Quote from: Flee on June 19, 2016, 04:08:35 PM

And by the way, it's very presumptuous of you to argue that you'd "never" buy the product. You don't know that for sure. There's no way that you could. You can't see the future.

I've bought games I never would've considered buying five years ago, like Halo: CE.

So that's not a logical defense; it's just a convenient, lazy excuse. It's convenient to presume you'd never do something, but the fact is, you simply can't know, so you can't presume.

Well that's silly.

Unless you're referring to something that Flee has some doubt about, it's smart to presume things. I can for instance presume that I won't ever buy Mall Cop, and the fact is that that's very likely.

Problem is that we don't really know what they want when it comes to this. They want their product to be $60 for those interested in buying it. If you'd ask a game developer what they'd want the price to be for people who would never spend any money on it if it wasn't free, I'd imagine that a whole lot of game developers would be more than delighted to get their name, product, IP and base game out there to as many people as possible, especially those who would otherwise never give it a try in the first place.

They're called demos. I brought them up the last time we discussed this as well. Demos are a wonderful tool for trying-before-buying, and it's a shame that they aren't always made for every game. They really should be.

And I'm not talking about chintzy little two level demos with loads of restrictions. Really give the consumer a feel for your game and give them a reason to purchase your product. If they're interested, they'll buy it. If not, they won't.

But you'd still pirate them anyway, even if every game ever had a reasonably-sized demo. Tell me I'm wrong.

Without that pirated game, I never would've tried the game or given the developers my money over the years.

It's good of you to have bought the game later, but I'm afraid that doesn't justify the initial theft.

Part of being a consumer--part of life--is taking risks. You can always return games, or sell them yourself.

Of course, it can be considered immoral because that's not what they originally wanted, but I'm still gonna think that this whole bunch of developers I've given money to after trying out a pirated version of their game would much prefer this over me never even touching their game.

That would be big of them, yes--but they're still owed money. It doesn't just go away because of their personal feelings.

If they wanted the product to be free, they would've made it so.

What do you think about instances where the creator of a product doesn't care, or outright advocates piracy? Trent Reznor, for instance, has encouraged downloading his music because he was pissed at the price his record company sold it.

But yeah, that said, if an artist or developer or what have you isn't cool with that, then the moral thing to do is respect that.

I don't like having to pay for shit--but that's just the society we live in. I wish people didn't feel so entitled to money, but they do--and some of the work people put into these games

Earlier, I brought up one of my best points yet that I don't want overlooked: If you don't like a game, nothing is stopping you from returning it or selling it to somebody else. You won't necessarily make your money back, but like I said--in this life, you have to take a few risks every once in awhile. And sometimes, you're gonna lose.

"Why take risks when I don't have to?" That's really for you to decide. Personally, I value morality, and I think artists and developers deserve compensation for their hard work, regardless of whether I personally enjoyed their product. Period.

(And yes, I'm aware that most of the profits don't actually end up in the creators' pockets, and that should probably change.)

i have pirated music i literally cant buy

stuff you cant even find on youtube or shazam

Quote from: 🇵🇪🇵🇸🇮™ on June 19, 2016, 05:36:08 PM

i have pirated music i literally cant buy

stuff you cant even find on youtube or shazam

Why do you have the Palestinian flag in your name?

thats probably enconding

it says pepsi for me

Reminder that piracy =/= a lost sale.

reminder that nobody has made this argument

I've never pirated anything