Quote from: Pendulate on June 10, 2015, 03:29:28 AM

The truth of the matter is that you can't conjure willpower out of thin air

Yes, you can. Of course you can. All you need to do is not be psychologically ill.

I mean, come on.

Of course. We did it yesterday in the lab.

C₆H₁₂O₆ + Psychological Health₃ →  H₂O + Willpower

Quote from: Verbatim on June 09, 2015, 08:15:17 PM

i guess i'll have to add, "if you support women's rights, you are a feminist--no exceptions" to my list

Given the current movement's willingness to say this in conversation, regardless of the shit they've spouted previously, I find that statement incredibly disingenuous.

i mean, it's just a fact, meta

there's a lot of people who don't believe in god, yet they don't personally identify as atheists, because they want to dissociate themselves from the militant/fedora-tipping stigma that it's now been relegated to on the internet

but they're still atheists, obviously

i don't need to point out once again that most feminists aren't SJW tumblr feminazis
(because most feminists don't even realize they're feminists--HINT HINT)

so it's more disingenuous to imply that this "current" movement is anything more than what i've described in the past as a fringe vocal minority, unrepresentative of the real cause

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 10, 2015, 03:27:01 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 09, 2015, 10:08:49 PM

you haven't been able to define the difference to me

It's possible humans suffer more when stabbed.

i don't think they do, and i don't think there's any real reason to think so

i mean, is there? really?

when you can't see the distinction, that alone should raise a red flag, in my opinion

I think there's a distinction. It just doesn't negate any ethical responsibility to the pig.

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on June 09, 2015, 09:01:36 PM

God is real

That's hardly controversial.

You sure?
 with the way people act (including on this website) you'd think I was advocating the legalisation of child rape, and not just believing in a higher power

There are people who are genetically predisposed to becoming addicted.

It's just not that simple. Some people can quit when they feel like it, others are such addicts they think they can't, so they can't.

i suppose the only way i could ever understand is if i tried it myself
that's the only way

some people have told me that it would be like if i had my internet cut
but i've had my internet cut for months on end, and i didn't give a single flying feathered fuck, so

i mean, it sucked, because the internet's pretty cool, but i wasn't going through "withdrawals" or anything stupid

I think there's a distinction. It just doesn't negate any ethical responsibility to the pig.

of course not, but the issue was which one you'd choose
you can save the pig, or you can save the human

one of them is going to get stabbed and bleed to death, and it's your choice

to me, it doesn't matter what you choose, because they both represent the same negative
you could make the argument that you should save the human, because humans have more ethical capabilities than pigs

while a human has the potential to cure cancer, and the pig doesn't
it also has the potential to shoot up an elementary school. and the pig doesn't.

so, pick your poison

Quote from: Pendulate on June 10, 2015, 03:50:13 AM

And I'm not even disagreeing with him; addicts may be weak, but it wouldn't have much to do with any 'choices' they make because the concept of choice is highly diminished with clinical addiction.

well, for my dad, his addiction was to nicotine

he would smoke every day for as long as i can remember until i was twelve, when he woke up one day and said "i'm done", basically

and he quit, cold turkey

no problems, no complications
and he said it was one of the easier things he's ever done

so for me, whenever i hear stuff like, "you can't just stop an addiction", i'm very very skeptical
call it anecdotal, because that's what it is, but that's just my experience

I quit smoking, drugs and alcohol cold turkey as well. It was about 5 years ago,  I'd been kicked out of my house because of them, and suddenly it struck me how I was just wasting my life. So that was it. And it was remarkably easy.

But I still can't deny that if my bad habits had led me somewhere else, I may not have quit at all.

I'm not sure how you'd reconcile your views on this with your views on determinism, unless I'm missing something.

Your dad's decision was commendable for sure, and we should of course commend people for overcoming addictions, but could he really account for why it was as easy to overcome as it was? If another addict, who has tried and failed more than once, was in exactly the same circumstances as your dad, would it not be easy for them as well?

I just don't think anecdotes are particularly compelling here. Sure, they're good for motivation, but you still can't account for why you're motivated by one anecdote and not another. Psychologically it runs a lot deeper than that. Philosophically it's not coherent at all.

you could make the argument that you should save the human, because humans have more ethical capabilities than pigs

That's an interesting angle actually, but I think we have good reasons to believe that humans can suffer more than pigs; if not in the initial pain from the stabbing, then in the psychological trauma it can inflict.

That's not to say pigs can't be traumatized too, but I think a utilitarian would have to choose the human in this case.

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on June 10, 2015, 06:31:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 10, 2015, 06:20:55 AM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on June 10, 2015, 06:17:40 AM

You sure?
 with the way people act (including on this website) you'd think I was advocating the legalisation of child rape, and not just believing in a higher power

there's a world outside this website

 It's not just here. some dude from my old high school told me too off myself the other day because the Bible discribes homosexuality is sinful, and got his buds to join in.

I'd only ever met the guy ONCE in my entire life and that was just at a TCG club.

I don't know man it seems he's telling you to off yourself for asserting that someone's sexual orientation is immoral or something.

Exept I never even mentioned it to anyone. The only people ive discussed it with in a non anonymous setting are my closest freinds and family.

All I did that set him off was share a christian motivational poster that had nothing to do with the topic, I guess he saw it through our mutual freind's timeline (BTW said mutual freind is himself a Jenhova's Witness) and it triggered his inner neckbeard.

As for the topic of homosexuality' sinfulness I have mixed feelings on the issue, which i'd like to save for another thread if at all.

Quote from: eggsalad on June 10, 2015, 06:34:03 AM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on June 10, 2015, 06:31:05 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 10, 2015, 06:20:55 AM

Quote from: Majestic Star Dragon on June 10, 2015, 06:17:40 AM

You sure?
 with the way people act (including on this website) you'd think I was advocating the legalisation of child rape, and not just believing in a higher power

there's a world outside this website

 It's not just here. some dude from my old high school told me too off myself the other day because the Bible discribes homosexuality is sinful, and got his buds to join in.

I'd only ever met the guy ONCE in my entire life and that was just at a TCG club.

I don't know man it seems he's telling you to off yourself for asserting that someone's sexual orientation is immoral or something.

Exept I never even mentioned it to anyone. The only people ive discussed it with in a non anonymous setting are my closest freinds and family.

All I did that set him off was share a christian motivational poster that had nothing to do with the topic, I guess he saw it through our mutual freind's timeline (BTW said mutual freind is himself a Jenhova's Witness) and it triggered his inner neckbeard.

As for the topic of homosexuality' sinfulness I have mixed feelings on the issue, which i'd like to save for another thread if at all.

ah
sorry for misconstruing the context

But humans are far more likely to work in benefit of society than trying to destroy it.

yeah, right

humans are more likely to work in benefit of themselves

ask the average person if he likes job, and if he does it for any other reason than money
and then ask the average person what he spends that money on

which coincidentally happens to benefit society

which is like saying you're a benefit to your homelife, because you helped your wife clean up the house by placing ONE fucking saltine cracker wrapper into the garbage--not because you wanted to, but because you didn't want to hear her bitch, and that was the minimum amount of effort she was looking for

humans do vastly more good than bad on average.

LOL

What fucking planet do YOU live on!?

Quote from: eggsalad on June 10, 2015, 06:50:18 AM

which coincidentally happens to benefit society

which is like saying you're a benefit to your homelife, because you helped your wife clean up the house by placing ONE fucking saltine cracker wrapper into the garbage--not because you wanted to, but because you didn't want to hear her bitch, and that was the minimum amount of effort she was looking for

Quote

humans do vastly more good than bad on average.

LOL

What fucking planet do YOU live on!?

the one where pigs are fat as fuck and i'm sitting here in an air conditioned room

Just wanna say that Verb realy does assign an extremely disproportionate importance on the negative aspects of life as opposed to the positive. The fact that ya think that no life is worth living because suffering is a part of it is kinda sad to think about.