I don't see why it needs reviving, Zimmerman acted in self defense and that was determined to be the case.

So we've got some character evidence against Tray-tray here, big whoop. We're simply learning more of what the Jury knew. It's nothing new and damning.

Although, yeah, this highlights a problem with the media.

Lost me with the ending.

They seem to have a hard time recollecting a grown man's crimes but they're really eager to go after a teenager who got into fights and smoked weed.

Mostly because Zimmerman was favourable in the community and the majority of his alleged crimes supposedly took place within the privacy of his own home, e.g. allegations of domestic abuse, whereas Trayvon's issues are a bit more publicized and easy to prove. For the millionth time, nobody is painting any kind of incorrect narrative against Trayvon.

Not denying that, but in his mind he was protecting himself from some guy who's following him around

So that warrants him attacking someone?

If some creepy ass dude was following me around, I wouldn't attack him. Who the fuck in their right mind would attack a shady character who was following you around?

]After he followed him for no reason at all. It was racial profiling and paranoia.

Actually no, that was a narrative NBC purposefully wanted you to swallow up.

All the evidence points towards Zimmerman profiling him as a thug due to his choice of clothes, not race.

Which is my point. You don't go looking for trouble when you're carrying a gun. There's an extremely high probability of you having to use your gun when you could've avoided the whole situation. And in most courts he would've gotten into serious trouble for following someone while armed behaving like a vigilante. Neighborhood watch or not, it's the wrong move.

The Affidavit of probable cause did not support a charge of second degree murder.

In other words, the prosecution over exaggerated Zimmerman's intentions. While there's no denying that Zimmerman made some stupid decisions, the evidence attested that he never had any desire to cause trouble.

Which has been used against black people on trial in a negative manner of they don't listen to the operator. Yet people sounded like a broken record repeating this over and over about how it isn't legally binding. No, it isn't. But you know why they say this? So the police department isn't liable, and so you don't put yourself or others in harm's way and wait to let the professionals handle business.

I think it has more to do with the fact that operators are not law enforcement, but okay.

And yet he got off with no charges.

Due to lack of evidence. You don't charge someone over certain suspicions. That's not how the judicial system works.

After being followed by somebody who could've been a mugger for all he knew.

Again, attacking them is not an appropriate response. It's not something I, or any other sane person would do.

No, he died because some dude thinks he's a vigilante and racially profiles people.

Well again, he didn't racially profile him, so let's drop the MSNBC narrative.

He was part of a gang? Where's the proof for that?

He showed signs of aspiring to be part of thug culture. I was echoing your point about black males having no control over the circumstances they grew up in.

He was a troubled kid who got into fights at school and was labeled a thug. I never said he was a thug, I said even if he was one did he deserve to be gunned down in the street? No.

If you attack someone with the intent of grievous bodily harm or potential homicide then yes, you absolutely do, regardless of race. Stand Your Ground isn't exactly an obscure law.

If you want to address the issues of Stand Your Ground as a law, that's fine, but don't give me this bullshit about how you shouldn't be able to defend yourself with lethal force, because legally in Florida, you absolutely can.

You're twisting what I'm saying. He wasn't walikg around throwing up gang signs of flashing a pistol. He bought iced tea and skittles from a convenience store and was on his way back to the house he was visiting.

True, but that still doesn't really change any facts, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

Zimmerman went after him because he was black.

No, he didn't. It helps if you actually read up on the case.

I take no issue with him calling the cops, because there were a lot of break ins and he was part of the neighborhood watch, or the captain I believe. But following him and creating a situation where using his weapon to defend himself would most likely be an inevitability? That's inexcusable and he should be sitting in prison for it.

You would be laughed out of the building if you tried to make that a criminal offense in a court of law. None of that is illegal.

A woman that fired warning shots with a gun in her home to defend against her husband was sentenced to several years in prison, and Zimmerman kills a guy after following him because he's paranoid and he walks? Come on now. It's not even about race, it's about how fucked up the justice system is and how having excellent lawyers and friends in the police department will get you out of a murder. Because that's exactly what it was.

Something I don't disagree with. However, the fact that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and he enacted in self defense is pretty much irrefutable at this point. All your doing is trying to downplay the narrative with petty appeals to emotions.

Alleged crimes"? The guy has actually broken the law. Trayvon got into fights at school.

There was also allegations that Trayvon stole jewellery, but nothing came into fruition because there was no damning evidence. A lot of the allegations levied at Zimmerman never actually fell through either, with the exception of his girlfriend charging him for domestic abuse, although the charges were dropped.

Nice confirmation bias there.

No offense, but you're a pussy if you're just going to keep walking if some creep starts following you. You confront somebody following you.

Lmao, get fucking real. The majority of people would try to flee or call the police under that circumstance. If you really are stupid enough to confront a suspicious character in the middle of the night, then you talk to him and inquire why he's following you. You don't start laying MMA punches like a fucking madman. It gets people killed, which is evidently what happened.

That isn't what I was talking about. The point is there were a lot of young black males breaking into houses in that area, so he racially profiled him.

Contrary to what the liberal group think has spoonfed you, not every crime involving blacks is racially motivated. There is a stark difference between arresting someone because of the colour of their skin and following a suspicious figure in the dark where it is difficult to make out discernable characteristics because of multiple reports of burglaries in the area.

You can continue to play the race card all you like but the rest of us know you're full of shit. All it does I'd hurt the authenticity of actual crimes against the black population and other people in general.

LOL Who's going to say he did want to cause trouble? Trayvon? Actions speak louder than words, and following Trayvon speaks volumes.

You're absolutely right, actions do speak louder than words. Trayvon attacking Zimmerman first tells me everything I need to know.

You think wrong, because they say that so they're not liable.

Lol, okay Camnator.

How about the fact that he instigated the entire thing and Trayvon wasn't doing anything illegal?

Does the evidence suggest Zimmerman landed the first punch? Does the evidence suggest Zimmerman approached Trayvon with hostility.

Then he didn't instigate. All your really doing is circumventing the blame away from Martin, because Idk, you have this really skewed idea of what constitutes racism.

Seeing how he asked him why he was being followed, then the fight happened, he didn't outright attack him.

Seeing as how the only injuries Martin sustained was the gunshot (which indicates that he had been in extremely close proximity with Zimmerman) and a contusion on the knuckles, whereas Zimmerman sustained serious head injuries, yeah I'm pretty fucking sure he outright attacked him. But keep thinking whatever line of narrative you've convinced yourself is the truth.

Fact of the matter is neither you or me were there so we really don't know what happened.

No, but the evidence paints a pretty clear picture as to what happened.

Except the fact that he was black and was wearing a hoody after several break ins committed by young black males was the reason he called the cops and followed him.

So what you're basically saying is that Zimmerman shouldn't have notified the police of a potential criminal because Trayvon was black? Right gotcha.

"Aspiring to be part of thug culture"? What? He was just some problematic kid that got into fights. That's not an excuse, mind you, but he wasn't a thug either.

Look, thug or not the fact of the matter is that he outright attacked Zimmerman. You can whine and bitch about institutionalised racism all you want, but that doesn't change the facts.

In self defense.

Which is what Zimmerman did?

No it isn't. So you'd think people would be applauding Trayvon for standing his ground and defending himself from some creepy dude if race wasn't such a huge issue in America.

Except Zimmerman never attacked him first, so Stand Your Ground isn't even applicable, like at all.

Didn't say that. I said he instigated and created the problem. Trayvon was minding his own business.

He started something that was entirely avoidable, sure. That doesn't give Martin the right to go full Bruce Lee on him though.

It changes the character assassination going on and proves he wasn't a thug looking for trouble.

Whatever he was doing is irrelevant. It's what he did to Zimmerman that ultimately counts.

I read up on it plenty, obviously more than your snippets of irrelevant accusations of the media.

Evidently not, seeing as you keep bringing up irrelevant points and cherrypicking information.

Instigating a fight then shooting somebody? Yeah, that is illegal.

Except he never instigated the fight. That was on Martin's behalf. I really don't see what's so difficult about this concept.

Nope, I'm presenting the facts and saying he started the issue. All he had to do was call the cops and they would've taken it from there. But instead he followed and shot somebody because he suspected something was going on when Trayvon was doing nothing illegal.

I already conceded to the fact that Zimmerman started something he shouldn't have. If I can admit that, then can you please do all of us the courtesy of admitting that Martin assaulted him completely out of the blue. You have to actually wilfully try to deny that.

Quote from: aTALLmidget on March 19, 2015, 03:15:17 PM

Quote from: challengerX on March 19, 2015, 07:28:17 AM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on March 19, 2015, 06:57:02 AM

Nobody denies Zimmerman's criminal history, dude.

They seem to have a hard time recollecting a grown man's crimes but they're really eager to go after a teenager who got into fights and smoked weed.

Quote

The fact of the matter is all of the evidence absolutely attests to Trayvon initiating the brawl.

Not denying that, but in his mind he was protecting himself from some guy who's following him around.

Quote

Trayvon died in the sense that he attacked Zimmerman first, and that Zimmerman reacted to the situation as anyone else should, in self defense.

After he followed him for no reason at all. It was racial profiling and paranoia.

Quote

Should Zimmerman have followed him? No.

Which is my point. You don't go looking for trouble when you're carrying a gun. There's an extremely high probability of you having to use your gun when you could've avoided the whole situation. And in most courts he would've gotten into serious trouble for following someone while armed behaving like a vigilante. Neighborhood watch or not, it's the wrong move.

Quote

Should he have ignored the operator (who's advice is not legally binding I might point out) who told him not to follow Trayvon? No.

Which has been used against black people on trial in a negative manner of they don't listen to the operator. Yet people sounded like a broken record repeating this over and over about how it isn't legally binding. No, it isn't. But you know why they say this? So the police department isn't liable, and so you don't put yourself or others in harm's way and wait to let the professionals handle business.

Quote

Was Zimmerman an unstable character himself? Absolutely.

And yet he got off with no charges.

Quote

But there's no question of a doubt that all of the empirical evidence points to Trayvon as the one who threw the first punch.

After being followed by somebody who could've been a mugger for all he knew.

Quote

Trayvon didn't deserve to die because he was innocent wittle black child which was constantly permeated throughout the media.

No, he died because some dude thinks he's a vigilante and racially profiles people.

Quote

He died because he was, as you amiably point out, part of the gang culture that gets so many black males killed and/or incarcerated in contemporary America.

He was part of a gang? Where's the proof for that?

He was a troubled kid who got into fights at school and was labeled a thug. I never said he was a thug, I said even if he was one did he deserve to be gunned down in the street? No.

You're twisting what I'm saying. He wasn't walikg around throwing up gang signs of flashing a pistol. He bought iced tea and skittles from a convenience store and was on his way back to the house he was visiting. Zimmerman went after him because he was black. I take no issue with him calling the cops, because there were a lot of break ins and he was part of the neighborhood watch, or the captain I believe. But following him and creating a situation where using his weapon to defend himself would most likely be an inevitability? That's inexcusable and he should be sitting in prison for it. A woman that fired warning shots with a gun in her home to defend against her husband was sentenced to several years in prison, and Zimmerman kills a guy after following him because he's paranoid and he walks? Come on now. It's not even about race, it's about how fucked up the justice system is and how having excellent lawyers and friends in the police department will get you out of a murder. Because that's exactly what it was.

Challenger, cases aren't decided by what you THINK is right, but what is the law. And in the case of Zimmerman and Trayvon, there were no laws broken by EITHER individual up until the physical altercation. Then, at that point, it would come down to who initiated the assault, and in this case it was Trayvon. Thus, Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It does not MATTER that he followed Trayvon, it was not illegal to do so. It does not MATTER that he disobeyed the recommendations by the 911 dispatcher, it was not illegal to do so. As well I should point out it's not normal to just punch someone that you think may or may not be following you - that is assault. In the end, Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and he acted in defense of his own life. Case closed. Zimmerman might not have been the most outstanding citizen but that cannot be held against him, and likewise Trayvon was definitely not a fucking angel like the media spun him to be (and used photos of him when he was younger, disgustingly misleading).

He shouldn't have followed him. Any responsible individual that carries a weapon knows not to go looking for trouble.

It was not illegal for him to do so, though. And following him does not mean he was looking for trouble.

Quote from: aTALLmidget on March 19, 2015, 05:01:35 PM

Quote from: challengerX on March 19, 2015, 04:27:12 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on March 19, 2015, 03:15:17 PM

Quote from: challengerX on March 19, 2015, 07:28:17 AM

Quote from: Madman Mordo on March 19, 2015, 06:57:02 AM

Nobody denies Zimmerman's criminal history, dude.

They seem to have a hard time recollecting a grown man's crimes but they're really eager to go after a teenager who got into fights and smoked weed.

Quote

The fact of the matter is all of the evidence absolutely attests to Trayvon initiating the brawl.

Not denying that, but in his mind he was protecting himself from some guy who's following him around.

Quote

Trayvon died in the sense that he attacked Zimmerman first, and that Zimmerman reacted to the situation as anyone else should, in self defense.

After he followed him for no reason at all. It was racial profiling and paranoia.

Quote

Should Zimmerman have followed him? No.

Which is my point. You don't go looking for trouble when you're carrying a gun. There's an extremely high probability of you having to use your gun when you could've avoided the whole situation. And in most courts he would've gotten into serious trouble for following someone while armed behaving like a vigilante. Neighborhood watch or not, it's the wrong move.

Quote

Should he have ignored the operator (who's advice is not legally binding I might point out) who told him not to follow Trayvon? No.

Which has been used against black people on trial in a negative manner of they don't listen to the operator. Yet people sounded like a broken record repeating this over and over about how it isn't legally binding. No, it isn't. But you know why they say this? So the police department isn't liable, and so you don't put yourself or others in harm's way and wait to let the professionals handle business.

Quote

Was Zimmerman an unstable character himself? Absolutely.

And yet he got off with no charges.

Quote

But there's no question of a doubt that all of the empirical evidence points to Trayvon as the one who threw the first punch.

After being followed by somebody who could've been a mugger for all he knew.

Quote

Trayvon didn't deserve to die because he was innocent wittle black child which was constantly permeated throughout the media.

No, he died because some dude thinks he's a vigilante and racially profiles people.

Quote

He died because he was, as you amiably point out, part of the gang culture that gets so many black males killed and/or incarcerated in contemporary America.

He was part of a gang? Where's the proof for that?

He was a troubled kid who got into fights at school and was labeled a thug. I never said he was a thug, I said even if he was one did he deserve to be gunned down in the street? No.

You're twisting what I'm saying. He wasn't walikg around throwing up gang signs of flashing a pistol. He bought iced tea and skittles from a convenience store and was on his way back to the house he was visiting. Zimmerman went after him because he was black. I take no issue with him calling the cops, because there were a lot of break ins and he was part of the neighborhood watch, or the captain I believe. But following him and creating a situation where using his weapon to defend himself would most likely be an inevitability? That's inexcusable and he should be sitting in prison for it. A woman that fired warning shots with a gun in her home to defend against her husband was sentenced to several years in prison, and Zimmerman kills a guy after following him because he's paranoid and he walks? Come on now. It's not even about race, it's about how fucked up the justice system is and how having excellent lawyers and friends in the police department will get you out of a murder. Because that's exactly what it was.

Challenger, cases aren't decided by what you THINK is right, but what is the law. And in the case of Zimmerman and Trayvon, there were no laws broken by EITHER individual up until the physical altercation. Then, at that point, it would come down to who initiated the assault, and in this case it was Trayvon. Thus, Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It does not MATTER that he followed Trayvon, it was not illegal to do so. It does not MATTER that he disobeyed the recommendations by the 911 dispatcher, it was not illegal to do so. As well I should point out it's not normal to just punch someone that you think may or may not be following you - that is assault. In the end, Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and he acted in defense of his own life. Case closed. Zimmerman might not have been the most outstanding citizen but that cannot be held against him, and likewise Trayvon was definitely not a fucking angel like the media spun him to be (and used photos of him when he was younger, disgustingly misleading).

He shouldn't have followed him. Any responsible individual that carries a weapon knows not to go looking for trouble.

It was not illegal for him to do so, though. And following him does not mean he was looking for trouble.

Trouble/confrontation/whatever. Don't argue semantics.

It's not illegal, but it created the whole situation.

Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, not the other way around. Don't argue bullshit - it wasn't illegal for him to do what he did. What WAS illegal was Trayvon assaulting Zimmerman. You seem like one of the types who wants to try people based on emotions rather than laws and logic.