Pablo Escobar would be a better president than Trump

this whole "Hillary is a criminal" meme is irrelevant

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 07:25:05 PM

Pablo Escobar would be a better president than Trump

this whole "Hillary is a criminal" meme is irrelevant

Could you be any more of a terrible person?

I'm seriously appalled.

I'm not the one who literally thinks we should cherish discrimination.

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 07:25:05 PM

Pablo Escobar would be a better president than Trump

this whole "Hillary is a criminal" meme is irrelevant

Could you be any more of a terrible person?

I'm seriously appalled.

you're talking to a guy who would rather set ALL criminals on the loose than allow one innocent person be convicted of something

Quote from: challengerX on June 11, 2016, 07:34:20 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 07:25:05 PM

Pablo Escobar would be a better president than Trump

this whole "Hillary is a criminal" meme is irrelevant

Could you be any more of a terrible person?

I'm seriously appalled.

you're talking to a guy who would rather set ALL criminals on the loose than allow one innocent person be convicted of something

I never said that. I said that would be the moral thing, but in the name of pragmatism, we'd have to be immoral and condemn an innocent man.

but I guess keep bringing this up incessantly in the future anyway lol

Hence "Crooked Hillary"
Is anyone surprised at this point?  It's a wonder how people support her without referencing Trump.

It's the only reason to support her. If Cruz or Kaisch somehow got the nomination, I'd be voting for them.

Quote from: Casper on June 11, 2016, 08:25:42 PM

Hence "Crooked Hillary"
Is anyone surprised at this point?  It's a wonder how people support her without referencing Trump.

It's the only reason to support her. If Cruz or Kaisch somehow got the nomination, I'd be voting for them.

cruz was easily worse than trump, if you look at what he planned to do

you can write off the other candidates as being incompetent, but cruz was legitimately dangerous, along with fiorina

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 08:26:43 PM

Quote from: Casper on June 11, 2016, 08:25:42 PM

Hence "Crooked Hillary"
Is anyone surprised at this point?  It's a wonder how people support her without referencing Trump.

It's the only reason to support her. If Cruz or Kaisch somehow got the nomination, I'd be voting for them.

cruz was easily worse than trump, if you look at what he planned to do

you can write off the other candidates as being incompetent, but cruz was legitimately dangerous, along with fiorina

Not really. Cruz is a shitty candidate, but he's better than Hillary who's owned by corporations and Trump who's literally insane.

cruz was easily worse than trump, if you look at what he planned to do

you can write off the other candidates as being incompetent, but cruz was legitimately dangerous, along with fiorina

how so

I never said that. I said that would be the moral thing, but in the name of pragmatism, we'd have to be immoral and condemn an innocent man.

but I guess keep bringing this up incessantly in the future anyway lol

You do realise morality is about what we should do? If you're saying we should condemn an innocent man in the name of pragmatism, and then claiming the opposite is actually the moral choice, you don't fully understand the terms of your own argument.

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 07:41:32 PM

I never said that. I said that would be the moral thing, but in the name of pragmatism, we'd have to be immoral and condemn an innocent man.

but I guess keep bringing this up incessantly in the future anyway lol

You do realise morality is about what we should do? If you're saying we should condemn an innocent man in the name of pragmatism, and then claiming the opposite is actually the moral choice, you don't fully understand the terms of your own argument.

No, it's not. Morality is about what's the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to do evil, fucked up shit. That necessity doesn't make it right.

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 12, 2016, 10:55:47 AM

Quote from: SecondClass on June 11, 2016, 07:41:32 PM

I never said that. I said that would be the moral thing, but in the name of pragmatism, we'd have to be immoral and condemn an innocent man.

but I guess keep bringing this up incessantly in the future anyway lol

You do realise morality is about what we should do? If you're saying we should condemn an innocent man in the name of pragmatism, and then claiming the opposite is actually the moral choice, you don't fully understand the terms of your own argument.

No, it's not. Morality is about what's the right thing to do. Sometimes you have to do evil, fucked up shit. That necessity doesn't make it right.

Except we don't have the luxury of always doing the (hypothetical) first-best option. Given that morality is about the right thing to do--which is literally exactly the same as saying what we should do--in a given situation it seems rather useless to constrict it to merely the study of principles.

Except we don't have the luxury of always doing the (hypothetical) first-best option.

Exactly. And in some situations, doing the first-best option is the moral option. But the world can be shitty, and humans can be shitty, so the moral option isn't always the one that makes the most pragmatic sense.

Unknowingly convicting an innocent man to prison is evil. Knowingly doing it, no matter the justifications, is abhorrent. But freeing everyone from prison would create a mass of social problems, and so we have to do the morally wrong thing of sending him to jail.

Morality is all about principles. Rationality is about what we should do.