Why working-class people vote conservative

Tyger | Elite Four Inconceivable!
 
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Verbatim
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You don't even seem interested in discussing the premise. You immediately interpret it as offensive and result to ridiculing some minuscule structural element of the associated Guardian article as a sweeping deconstruction of the thesis. You're not willing to have a sincere discussion, so I don't even understand why you're posting in this thread.
probably because any notion that conservatives have anything called "virtues" triggers the fuck out of me

The different moral foundations are specifically defined. They are, if I remember them correctly: Care, Fairness, Liberty,  Loyalty, Authority and Sanctity.

Liberals tend to care about the first three
False--liberals tend to reject the last two--authority and sanctity. The first four are well-regarded on both sides of the political spectrum, and any outliers must be looked upon from an individual basis. I'm gonna assume you know all this

Also, the whole there-is-no-god thing kind of nullifies "sanctity" as a moral foundation. In other words, it's not one.
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This shouldn't be surprising; conservatives are more likely to be patriotic
False, liberals are the most patriotic people in the country. You can't truly love your country if you don't hate the fuck out of it. If you're talking about patriotism in the traditional flag-waving jingoistic sense, I consider that pretty narrow and ill-thought-out.
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I'm pretty sure in his book the Righteous Mind he openly talks about how consideration for certain foundations can be bad and have been bad at certain points in history.
I'm referring specifically to this essay. Does he not, in this essay, directly imply some kind of moral superiority over liberals just for clinging to these redundant, arbitrary, and bogus moral foundations?
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But honestly it feels like you're reading that into his argument because you disagree with it. All he's saying is that conservative parties are successful because they appeal to a wider space of moral concern; if anything, he's suggesting liberal parties do the same to capture more of the vote. There's no real reason why liberal parties wouldn't be able to do this, to snag more conservatively minded independents, and maybe even conservative voters themselves.
I'm not so sure. It seems leftists, and especially these neo-new-age-leftists, are forever doomed to be unable to consider the foundations of authority and sanctity. As much as I shill for Jill, her extreme Gaiaism is a slight put-off. It's good to be an environmentalist, but to go religiously overboard with it is just kinda gross, and I think that's part of why people tend to distance themselves from the Green Party, if they don't overtly disagree with it: they're really just a bunch of zealous hippies.
Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:05:34 AM by Verbatim


 
More Than Mortal
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
False--liberals tend to reject the last two--authority and sanctity. The first four are well-regarded on both sides of the political spectrum
The point is not that liberals don't value loyalty, it's that they don't value loyalty as defined by MFT. Contextually, loyalty means how much you value being a team player over individuality, how likely you are to support your government if they do something wrong etc. 

Liberals, on the whole, are more likely to value freedom of thought over loyalty to a given group goal, less likely to be patriotic etc. You can view the data on the MFT website, and take the surveys, to see for yourself precisely how the moral foundations are being defined.

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Also, the whole there-is-no-god thing kind of nullifies "sanctity" as a moral foundation. In other words, it's not one.
I would point out that it's possible to have some respect for sanctity in non-religious ways. I, for instance, would say you yourself have a rather high appreciation of sanctity in the very specific realm of sobriety. It seems, at least to me, that sanctity for you is the equivalent of not brutalising your perceptions.

Nevertheless, this is exactly what I mean when I said you can convincingly argue some of the moral foundations are bad foundations to have. Haidt's work is descriptive; the fact that he determines people have these foundations isn't any judgement on the quality of them.

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If you're talking about patriotism in the traditional flag-waving jingoistic sense, I consider that pretty narrow and ill-thought-out.
I am, and I know you do.

Regardless, take a survey of conservatives and liberals. I guarantee the conservatives will reliably refer to themselves as more patriotic on average than liberals do.

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I'm referring specifically to this essay. Does he not, in this essay, directly imply some kind of moral superiority over liberals just for clinging to these redundant, arbitrary, and bogus moral foundations?
No. He doesn't even indirectly imply it. All he's saying is that conservative parties enjoy (somewhat surprising) electoral success because they appeal to a wider degree of moral concerns irrespective of whether these moral concerns are good concerns to have.

All you really seem to dislike is that it's not phrased in a way as to be unabashedly liberal. You could equally say that conservatives tend to be on average more nationalistic, subservient to authority and superstitious and conservative parties do well because they appeal to this.