Quote from: Verbatim on February 01, 2016, 11:03:30 PM

There is no greater good, it's a fucking delusion.

Drop your fucking spooks and you'll realize you've essentially propped up an idol, and a shitty one at that.

There is no greater good. Without a theistic God, Stirnerian egoism is the only valid worldview.

If you want a moral system, find religion. If not, stop trying to pretend one you just pulled out of your asshole because it makes you feel good is legitimate.

Quote from: Verbatim on February 01, 2016, 11:39:44 PM

Yet they're still homeless and needy, in droves.

This is the default state of humanity. It is man's job to drag himself out of the muck and build something if he wants it. He is owed nothing and owes nothing but to God.

lmao stop

Quote from: Verbatim on February 02, 2016, 12:39:59 AM

Seriously, prove your shit isn't spooked to hell.

i don't know what you mean by that

I mean shit man, I only make 21k BEFORE TAXES a year. If I elect Bernie, can I expect to be given another 30k tax free to brig my gross income up to the national average?

No, you can't because he's only increasing taxes on those with yearly incomes of 250k+

There aren't enough resources in the world for everyone to live the same as middle class Americans.

there might be, if people would stop having so many goddamn kids

just sayin

Quote from: BUILD DAS WALL on February 01, 2016, 11:41:39 PM

I mean shit man, I only make 21k BEFORE TAXES a year. If I elect Bernie, can I expect to be given another 30k tax free to brig my gross income up to the national average?

No, you can't because he's only increasing taxes on those with yearly incomes of 250k+

Actually, I'd be paying more into FICA and my employers would have a payroll tax increase for each employee under the Bern's tax plan.

Demonstrate to me that there is a greater good.

The "greater good" is a relative term. The greatest possible good that I've been able to come up with is if we all peacefully drove ourselves to extinction by means of reproductive abstinence (no humans = no suffering).

As long as we persist as a species, however, it would be in our collective best interest to make the world the best and most comfortable place to live in possible. Every individual is entitled to a comfortable existence--because they never asked to be here in the first place. When you move to China, you are not entitled to anything (beyond your basic human rights, which can be debated upon), because you made the choice to go there.

You don't waltz into other people's houses and expect to be handed free shit.

However, it doesn't quite work that way when you never personally made the choice to be here.

When you're forced into an imposition such as life, you'd better have some grade-A compensation. That is the greater good: the mitigation of all of life's potential disutility or discomfort. I don't see how you could contest this.

I mean, I know you're a religious kook now, but surely you should be able to take off the blinders for the sake of discussion and look at this from a godless perspective. I'd hope. Otherwise, this discussion is pointless. I usually hate discussing philosophy with theists. It's like trying to box with someone who's on a separate ring.

Hard mode: collective physiological health is not a metric by which quality can be measured.

Is it not? Are you asking me to dispute that?

There aren't enough resources in the world for everyone to live the same as middle class Americans.

In what sense? What do you mean by "resources"?

Thievery and coercion are still thievery and coercion no matter your rationalizations.

And rationalizations are rationalizations. You can rationalize almost anything--even murder. Nothing is inherently wrong.

If I have to shoot you in the face to cure cancer, guess what I'm gonna do.

Quote from: CIS on February 02, 2016, 02:57:54 PM

Thievery and coercion are still thievery and coercion no matter your rationalizations.

And rationalizations are rationalizations. You can rationalize almost anything--even murder. Nothing is inherently wrong.

If I have to shoot you in the face to cure cancer, guess what I'm gonna do.

If getting shot in the face would cure cancer or bring about a space age I'd probably just do it myself.

If getting shot in the face would cure cancer or bring about a space age I'd probably just do it myself.

No, that wouldn't work. The point is that I would be coerced into committing murder for the greater good, because your existence isn't worth a stubbed toe on a tree sloth, let alone millions of people suffering from terminal illness.

Greater good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You.

This is where "greater good" philosophies fall apart. Nothing justifies cold-blooded murder, not even something universally good such as curing cancer.

Human rights > greater good, any day

I mean, it's really hard to think of a more evil mentality than that.

Yeah, respecting human rights is so evil.

That's not what you're doing, though. You're causing millions and millions of people suffering because of ONE fucking person. You don't give a fuck about human rights--you don't even know what the term means.

This is why I'm happy hypothetical scenarios are only hypothetical. People would find you if you made that choice, and they would do awful things to you, if not just kill you themselves. There would be riots.

I'm guessing Class just watched too many Disney movies or some shit. He has Disney morality.

Literally Disney.