Since the first ontological argument - proposed by Anselm (and then discredited by Gaunilo of Marmourtiers, Hume and Kant) - is defunt, I'll be using the new version of Alvin Plantinga's, which uses modal logic.

Plantinga's argument goes like this:

A being has maximal excellence in a given possible world W if and only if it is omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good in W; and

A being has maximal greatness if it has maximal excellence in every possible world.

It is possible that there is a being that has maximal greatness. (Premise)

Therefore, possibly, it is necessarily true that an omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good being exists.

Therefore, (by axiom S5) it is necessarily true that an omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good being exists.

Therefore, an omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good being exists.

First off, let me just mention that Plantinga doesn't actually claim this is proof for the existence of God but merely tries to express the rationality behind such a belief. However, the argument relies on Axiom S5 in modal logic, which is to do with possibility and necessity.

The argument essentially begs the question, as the conclusion is built into the premise as soon as you grant that something is metaphysically necessary and possibly exists. Building the necessity of an entity into modal logic is absurd - you could do the same with certain unproven mathematical problems.

However, if you really want to easily show how this argument is ridiculous, just replace "maximal excellence" with maximal wickedness, "maximal greatness" with maximal evil and "perfectly good" with perfectly bad.

Why do so many of you here hate God so much?

I don't understand the charge.

How can I hate something I don't believe in?

You hate the concept of it..

I suppose so.

Am I not allowed to?

I just asked why, and why you're so vocal/offensive about it. Many people here act this way.

How, exactly, am I offensive about it?

As for being vocal; that's just me.

Why do atheists talk about God more than religious people?

I don't. I have no issue with you believing in God, so long as you don't use the ontological argument to justify it.

This thread is specifically about Plantinga's argument - not the existence of God.

Quote from: PSU on October 12, 2014, 03:25:43 PM

Why do atheists talk about God more than religious people?

I don't. I have no issue with you believing in God, so long as you don't use the ontological argument to justify it.

This thread is specifically about Plantinga's argument - not the existence of God.

Why does it matter why I (or anyone else)  believe in God?

I could say, God showed himself to me through a piece of cheese and it wouldn't matter. People can believe for whatever reason they like.

Why does it matter why I (or anyone else)  believe in God?

I enjoy the discourse. If you don't want to explain yourself to me, that's fine. If you advance the ontological argument, however, I'll counter it. If you advance the Holy Cheese Thesis, I'll counter that too. That's the point of discussion.

It also becomes important when people in the Middle East begin blowing themselves up or using people as human shields, when abortion clinics in America are bombed, where stem-cell research is opposed and when euthanasia is opposed.

It's funny to me people are offended that we want to have a discussion on a forum.

The nerve of you, Meta. How do you sleep at night after committing such evil deeds?

"why the fuck are you doing this?" = "You have offended my honor!"

Kay.

"why the frack are you doing this?" = "You have offended my honor!"

Kay.

Both are pretty ridiculous.

Why on earth would you question my desire to discuss something on a forum?

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 12, 2014, 05:27:05 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 12, 2014, 04:54:47 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 12, 2014, 04:52:42 PM

"why the frack are you doing this?" = "You have offended my honor!"

Kay.

Both are pretty ridiculous.

Why on earth would you question my desire to discuss something on a forum?

To start discussion about your desire to discuss something on a forum.

Then make your own thread about it. Don't come in here and derail this one.

It's relevant, m80. Don't h8, just appreciate.

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 12, 2014, 05:31:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on October 12, 2014, 05:29:02 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 12, 2014, 05:27:05 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 12, 2014, 04:54:47 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on October 12, 2014, 04:52:42 PM

"why the frack are you doing this?" = "You have offended my honor!"

Kay.

Both are pretty ridiculous.

Why on earth would you question my desire to discuss something on a forum?

To start discussion about your desire to discuss something on a forum.

Then make your own thread about it. Don't come in here and derail this one.

It's relevant, m80. Don't h8, just appreciate.

It's completely irrelevant.

Say I make a thread about sandwiches. Then you come in and say "Why do you make so many threads about sandwiches?". Irrelevant.

Think of it like this, you're questioning my questioning of him making these threads. Making you even more off-topic than me.

Maybe you should rethink your life.

Meta I swear

You're like 500 years behind on everything