I love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.
Quote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 03:49:12 PMI love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.I wouldn't even say there's a need to get defensive whens someone makes a logic-based attack against gender dysphoria, because I don't see that as an honest means of taking arguments down. You can make 100% logic-based arguments for trans people.
Quote from: Winy on October 26, 2015, 05:05:25 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 03:49:12 PMI love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.I wouldn't even say there's a need to get defensive whens someone makes a logic-based attack against gender dysphoria, because I don't see that as an honest means of taking arguments down. You can make 100% logic-based arguments for trans people.Pls make me a case for trans people without factoring emotions into the equation whatsoever
Quote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 05:10:02 PMQuote from: Winy on October 26, 2015, 05:05:25 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 03:49:12 PMI love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.I wouldn't even say there's a need to get defensive whens someone makes a logic-based attack against gender dysphoria, because I don't see that as an honest means of taking arguments down. You can make 100% logic-based arguments for trans people.Pls make me a case for trans people without factoring emotions into the equation whatsoever"Nobody's getting hurt." There?
Quote from: Winy on October 26, 2015, 05:27:01 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 05:10:02 PMQuote from: Winy on October 26, 2015, 05:05:25 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 03:49:12 PMI love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.I wouldn't even say there's a need to get defensive whens someone makes a logic-based attack against gender dysphoria, because I don't see that as an honest means of taking arguments down. You can make 100% logic-based arguments for trans people.Pls make me a case for trans people without factoring emotions into the equation whatsoever"Nobody's getting hurt." There?That's not for, fam, that's just not against
"Nobody's getting hurt and gender dysphoric people are less likely to off themselves."Bam. Easy. Only assumptions are that nobody should be hurt and that preventing depression/suicide is good.
Quote from: Tsirist on October 26, 2015, 06:04:15 PM"Nobody's getting hurt and gender dysphoric people are less likely to off themselves."Bam. Easy. Only assumptions are that nobody should be hurt and that preventing depression/suicide is good.Depression and many of the effects of gender dysphoria deal with emotion, and that opinion is, thus, answering the question based on a certain emotional standpoint.
OT: And why should the reason not be "because it makes people happy"? Please, I'd love to get a good reason for that. So many people love debating against transgenders and justifying bigotry because they "don't want to just make them feel better," but why not? While this isn't the crux of the argument, I'd really love to hear a legitimate reason behind this, because it's really just a weak platform to stand on to justify hate speech and bigotry.And yes, before you fire back with that "WELL HOW AM I BEING A BIGOT?!?!" shit, disrespecting transgenders, saying that you shouldn't have to "adjust" your poor self to their preferred pronouns and names (I know, I know, it's such an incredible hardship) and saying that they're still men/women (depending on their start/finish) is transphobic and bigoted. Asking questions isn't, but asking questions purely with the intent to ignore the responses as "SJW PC bullshit" and fire back with gay jokes is. It's really not that difficult to tell when someone is asking questions about trans folks because they're open-minded or legitimately curious about that issue as opposed to when someone's just asking questions to make fun of the opposing sides and attempt to poke holes in scientific and psychiatric fact because trans people make them uncomfortable. Trust me, you're not as smart as you think.And yeah, that's pretty much what the anti-arguments boil down to: "this makes me uncomfortable so I don't like it." It's the same shit the gay community went through years ago. Now people are fine with 'em, sure, but it wasn't that long ago that "homophilia" was classified as a mental illness and was believed to be infectious by many.I love how people act like "logic" is some big trump card and that emotions should have no play in anything. "HURR DURR WELL YOU CAN ONLY JUSTIFY THIS FROM AN EMOTIONAL STANDPOINT AND NOT A PURELY LOGICAL ONE SO IT DOESN'T EXIST AND I'M GONNA KEEP BEING AN ASSHOLE." Sorry, is the human race populated entirely full of sociopaths? It isn't, since that was a rhetorical question, and trying to act like emotion doesn't play a roll in anything we do and that it excuses you being a bigoted cuntbag just because it's not a purely logical action - especially in the realm of MENTAL DISEASES THAT ARE HEAVILY EFFECTED BY A PERSON'S EMOTIONS - is just fucking stupid, narrow-minded, and a poor justification for hatespeech, as most other things revolving around transphobia are.I could go more in-depth about the divide between sex and gender and the immense effect that gender has one one's social standing and role as well as the presence of body dysphoria correlating gender dysphoria and the hatred one has of feeling "wrong" as myself and people like me experience every day. I could go into the incredibly high suicide rates as well as devolution into addiction on drugs and alcohol caused by feeling out-of-place most forwardly due to a society that says these things are "unnatural" and holds a line of thought that it's somehow "wrong" to respect other people just because that makes them personally feel uncomfortable due to their rapidly-falling-behind viewpoints on the world, but I won't because that'd be going on a tangent.Instead, let me ask you this:What if you woke up tomorrow to discover that you had two X-chromosomes? You had all your life, in fact. Now, that hadn't effected much, as you'd still been born with functional male genitalia and your body had naturally produced high amounts of testosterone due to that, but...you'd be biologically female! You'd have female chromosomes! Would you immediately start identifying as a woman and want restructive surgery just to conform to what was "biologically" correct?Probably not, because gender is more than the shit you learned in 9th grade biology.
People always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equation
Why should we accept transgenders if they can't even accept themselves?
Quote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:24:11 PMPeople always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equationis that not how it should be done
Quote from: Verbatim on October 26, 2015, 06:28:59 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:24:11 PMPeople always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equationis that not how it should be done
You guys are proving that my logic on this is stupid, which is just the point that I'm trying to provePeople always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equation, with arguments like "WELL THEY STILL HAVE MALE CHROMOSOMES SO I CAN'T BE EXPECTED TO JUST LIE" and shit like that, as if emotions play no part on either side of any argument.
I'm still not sure what we're supposed to base our arguments on then if the premises are not allowed to relate in ANY way to happiness.
Quote from: Tackel on October 26, 2015, 06:28:22 PMWhy should we accept transgenders if they can't even accept themselves?Yeah tbh we should basically just kill everyone that has self-confidence issuesGenocide when?This also may have set a new record for the dumbest argument I've ever heard against trans individuals. Good job.
Quote from: Tsirist on October 26, 2015, 06:49:37 PMI'm still not sure what we're supposed to base our arguments on then if the premises are not allowed to relate in ANY way to happiness.Research showing that the current treatments for Gender Incongruence result in the best alleviation or elimination of side effects arising from it, including MDD and BDD. Depression doesn't preclude happiness; it involves a chemical or logical imbalance in which empty or negative feelings outweigh the positive.
Going complete opposite end of the spectrum is never good to reinforce your points.Calm down.
Quote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:31:34 PMQuote from: Verbatim on October 26, 2015, 06:28:59 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:24:11 PMPeople always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equationis that not how it should be doneyou wanna answer my question or
Quote from: Verbatim on October 26, 2015, 06:34:42 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:31:34 PMQuote from: Verbatim on October 26, 2015, 06:28:59 PMQuote from: Cindo on October 26, 2015, 06:24:11 PMPeople always try to make arguments purely based on fact and removing all emotion whatsoever from the equationis that not how it should be doneyou wanna answer my question orI literally just had a discussion on why that's stupid
Why should transgenderism be something we "accept"?
