Why does mainstream psychology insist that memories are stored physically?

Dustin | Heroic Invincible!
 
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rC | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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ayy lmao
hard drives aren't real


Dustin | Heroic Invincible!
 
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rC | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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ayy lmao
hard drives aren't real
Silicon also isn't a part of human biology. In fact most metals are not.
no shit, but the point is that data can be stored physically.


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ayy lmao
hard drives aren't real
Silicon also isn't a part of human biology. In fact most metals are not.
no shit, but the point is that data can be stored physically.
Wow how mind blowing... well now I know. Any other cool facts you can share?
do you know how to use the enter key?


 
 
Mr. Psychologist
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<.<
Way to go mods for filtering out non-political threads, because this board is totally not in desperate need of them.

A ban is a ban m8. But yes, this board does need less politics in it <.<

It's possible, but I would say that it's because it's been somewhat demonstrated through genetics/imprinting.

I'll dig up studies tomorrow if you want, but loosely speaking it's been documented that pregnant mothers who undergo a trauma/phobia causing event and still give birth pass on that fear to their child in the form of altering strands of DNA iirc. It's late so I can't remember it very clearly but I'll look for it tomorrow <.<


Assassin 11D7 | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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"flaming nipple chops"-Your host, the man they call Ghost.

To say, 'nothing is true', is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say, 'everything is permitted', is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
Variable of the electrical impulses could be between what neurons they fire, and when they fire a new memory could be encoded onto a neuron(or group of them) by the characteristics of the impulse(or maybe even a series of impulses) that connects to it. How what would be "engraved" into the neuron could be 'read', idk. Don't we have people that study this for a living, why haven't they gotten anywhere yet?


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How else would they be stored if not physically?


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All I know is that I watched this video about a brain surgeon who got a very bad bacterial disease, it spread to his brain, made him go into a coma, destroyed the part of the brain capable of producing memories, yet he miraculously recovered but said he experienced the afterlife, despite scientifically unable to because of his severe situation.


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My stupidity is self evident.
For quantum effects to govern memory, or anything mental really, aspects of the brain would have to behave quantum mechanically. A brain, hell even a neuron, quantum mechanically speaking is a very large system and(as far as we know) barring extremely low temperatures(fractions of a degree above absolute zero) large quantum systems tend to approximate classical systems, meaning quantum effects shouldn't play a role unless we are missing something insane.

OP you may be interested in Roger Penrose's quantum mind theory. Absolutely no experimental support for it, theoretical objections are similar to the one I raised but I thought I'd just throw it at you.
Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:25:10 PM by SexyPiranha


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if we could apply quantum mechanics to neurology

I'm sure your efforts are sincere but this is the type of catch-all phrase thrown around by laymen that think one can just 'quantum mechanics' their way to any solution.
Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:10:16 PM by E̲n̲ga̲ge̲d̲T̲u̲r̲k̲e̲y


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if we could apply quantum mechanics to neurology

I'm sure your efforts are sincere but this is the type of catch-all phrase thrown around by laymen that think you can just 'quantum mechanics' your way to any solution.
"Bu. . .but it's weird and I don't understand it."


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We'd like to believe the memory is stored in neuron cells, but there simply isn't any place in the cell where that would happen.

The individual neurons send a unique signal that, in series with other neurons, produce a unique combination resulting in memory recall.

What specifically does quantum mechanics have to do with any of it?
Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 10:54:33 PM by E̲n̲ga̲ge̲d̲T̲u̲r̲k̲e̲y


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My stupidity is self evident.
For quantum effects to govern memory, or anything mental really, aspects of the brain would have to behave quantum mechanically. A brain, hell even a neuron, quantum mechanically speaking is a very large system and(as far as we know) barring extremely low temperatures(fractions of a degree above absolute zero) large quantum systems tend to approximate classical systems, meaning quantum effects shouldn't play a role unless we are missing something insane.

OP you may be interested in Roger Penrose's quantum mind theory. Absolutely no experimental support for it, theoretical objections are similar to the one I raised but I thought I'd just throw it at you.
I wouldn't necessarily say that we're dealing with macroscopic quantum phenomena. In fact the point is that the quantum behavior is not obvious enough for us notice it. Could it not be possible that this particular function of the brain is partitioned off from the rest of the system, or at least confines its interaction with the rest of the system to a very small degree?
I did add in the neuron bit as well, which would make it microscopic but I see your point. How do you suppose it's partitioned? It would have to be partitioned in such a way to keep what causes quantum states in a brain to decohere(namely, interaction w/ other quantum states), from causing it to also. That would imply that the quantum systems of the rest of the brain shouldn't be able to interact at all with whatever has been partitioned. What I was getting at was that when a quantum system approximates a classical one(decoheres) the quantum behavior of the individual smaller systems tends to be cancelled out on average and tends towards classical behavior on the whole. This would seem to indicate that whatever quantum behavior that is "too small for us to notice" would be too drowned out by classical noise to be useful for anything.
Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:10:36 PM by SexyPiranha


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If memory is stored in neurons, why are there no organelles within the cell that perform that function?

Biology isn't my thing, but I'm pretty sure the neuron is formed in result to a stimulus and that results in it sending a unique signal. There are billions of these neurons, and trillions of connections between them. A memory isn't a physical object, but it's a combination of electrical signals (which is still physical and tangible).


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Well an easy way to show you would be the effect of certain neurotransmitters on recollection proving that there's some form of connection between neurons/synapses and memory. I don't understand what your problem is with the current model tho-

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How is that memories can be stored in one physical location anyway? We're organic, meaning unique chemical structures are the only way to hard wire that kind of information in a physical manner (correct me if I'm wrong, but how else can organic matter store information?).

... you should definitely look into neural encoding. It's too vast a concept for me to explain in a series of replies, but I think you'll find more than a few answers if you know what you're looking for.


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Goji, what are you studying?


 
 
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<.<
I'll dig up studies tomorrow if you want, but loosely speaking it's been documented that pregnant mothers who undergo a trauma/phobia causing event and still give birth pass on that fear to their child in the form of altering strands of DNA iirc. It's late so I can't remember it very clearly but I'll look for it tomorrow <.<
Please link when you wake up.

Thanks for the reminder, I'll look for it now <.<


 
 
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<.<
I'll dig up studies tomorrow if you want, but loosely speaking it's been documented that pregnant mothers who undergo a trauma/phobia causing event and still give birth pass on that fear to their child in the form of altering strands of DNA iirc. It's late so I can't remember it very clearly but I'll look for it tomorrow <.<
Please link when you wake up.

Thanks for the reminder, I'll look for it now <.<

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n1/full/nn.3594.html

Study is behind a paywall as fucking usual, this article does a good summary though.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10486479/Phobias-may-be-memories-passed-down-in-genes-from-ancestors.html

Basically they taught rats to associate the smell of cherry blossom with traumatic experiences and then the children of those rats exhibited fear of the smell of cherry blossom without experiencing the trauma firsthand, and I would assume they also didn't allow the parents to demonstrate the fear response infront of the children.

I've got a bit of a cold today so my head is kind of fracked but see what you make of it, it's quite a conclusive study iirc.


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Goji, what are you studying?

Comp sci and pure math! I just read other things which interest me in my spare time XD