Why do people say you can't be 100% certain that there is no god?

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 06:11:10 AM

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Magos Domina · October 08, 2014, 06:54:44 AM

Is there some kind of god out there? Possibly, is it the abrahamic god? No, the abrahamic god is a fictional character.

Flee · October 08, 2014, 07:08:49 AM

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RustingFloor · October 08, 2014, 07:11:31 AM

B-but I only take the parts I like literally!

Korra · October 08, 2014, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Kiyohime on October 08, 2014, 06:54:44 AM

Is there some kind of god out there? Possibly, is it the abrahamic god? No, the abrahamic god is a fictional character.

Maybe there is some powerful cosmic being out there.

RustingFloor · October 08, 2014, 08:10:57 AM

Quote from: Wonder Korra on October 08, 2014, 08:09:28 AM

Quote from: Kiyohime on October 08, 2014, 06:54:44 AM
Is there some kind of god out there? Possibly, is it the abrahamic god? No, the abrahamic god is a fictional character.
Maybe there is some powerful cosmic being out there.

And maybe a large upright ape wanders the North American wilderness

Korra · October 08, 2014, 08:12:07 AM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 08, 2014, 08:10:57 AM

Quote from: Wonder Korra on October 08, 2014, 08:09:28 AM
Quote from: Kiyohime on October 08, 2014, 06:54:44 AM
Is there some kind of god out there? Possibly, is it the abrahamic god? No, the abrahamic god is a fictional character.
Maybe there is some powerful cosmic being out there.
And maybe a large upright ape wanders the North American wilderness

Maybe.

Kinder Graham · October 08, 2014, 08:28:10 AM

Physics is only limited to what we know about. Afterall, God created everything including physics so he has power over it; it's like how Cheat is our "god" as he created this forum and can manipulate however he pleases

RomanGladiator · October 08, 2014, 08:40:37 AM

Because those people probably have a great life. I think they'll start to doubt god themselves when a tragedy happens to someone close to them. Unfortunately.

PSU · October 08, 2014, 09:20:52 AM

Why? because its true.

Prove to me that there is no god if you're certain.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 10:49:27 AM

You can be pretty certain the abrahamic god doesn't exist. To say you're certain any sort of supernatural deity doesn't exist is where the folly lies.

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 10:57:23 AM

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More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 10:59:21 AM

I don't really care. Lacking the reasons to believe is fairly equal consequentially to trying to proclaim certainty.

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 11:08:44 AM

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Mad Max · October 08, 2014, 11:12:50 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 08, 2014, 09:20:52 AM

Prove to me that there is no god if you're certain.

Can't happen. It's literally impossible.

You can never have positive proof of a negative. No evidence exists to prove that (x) doesn't exist. You can only ever prove something does exist.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:23:17 AM

Quote from: uıʇsnᗡ on October 08, 2014, 11:08:44 AM

Well Meta, are you certain that 2 + 2 = 4?

Yes because it is, by definition, correct.

1 is 1 because 1 equals 1.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:12:50 AM

You can never have positive proof of a negative.

Well that's just false.

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 11:25:01 AM

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More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:26:00 AM

Quote from: uıʇsnᗡ on October 08, 2014, 11:25:01 AM

Are you certain the laws of physics are correct, even if not complete?

What the hell kind of question is that? Am I certain the Universe operates according to certain principles?

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 11:28:57 AM

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Mad Max · October 08, 2014, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:12:50 AM
You can never have positive proof of a negative.
Well that's just false.

Really? How can you have proof of a negative? What possible proof could exist that proves that God, in this case, doesn't exist?

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:33:20 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:12:50 AM
You can never have positive proof of a negative.
Well that's just false.
Really? How can you have proof of a negative? What possible proof could exist that proves that God, in this case, doesn't exist?

Well first off you can't prove anything to an absolute degree of unwavering certainty. However, the idea that you can't prove a negative is just a pernicious falsehood, to be honest; sophistry. You can, with a bit of work, make any sentence a negative. In fact, "You can't prove a negative" is, in itself, a negative.

Nonetheless, if John were to claim that there is a unicorn in the tool shed, I could reasonably falsify this claim. We could drain the loch to find the Loch Ness Monster. Negative claims are still claims. You can determine the likelihood of the Abrahamic God - being specific in his nature - by seeing how his supposed traits map out onto reality.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:33:43 AM

Quote from: uıʇsnᗡ on October 08, 2014, 11:28:57 AM

If you are certain 2 + 2 = 4, then yes.

Obviously.

Mad Max · October 08, 2014, 11:38:07 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 08, 2014, 11:33:20 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 08, 2014, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:12:50 AM
You can never have positive proof of a negative.
Well that's just false.
Really? How can you have proof of a negative? What possible proof could exist that proves that God, in this case, doesn't exist?
Well first off you can't prove anything to an absolute degree of unwavering certainty. However, the idea that you can't prove a negative is just a pernicious falsehood, to be honest; sophistry. You can, with a bit of work, make any sentence a negative. In fact, "You can't prove a negative" is, in itself, a negative.

Nonetheless, if John were to claim that there is a unicorn in the tool shed, I could reasonably falsify this claim. We could drain the loch to find the Loch Ness Monster. Negative claims are still claims. You can determine the likelihood of the Abrahamic God - being specific in his nature - by seeing how his supposed traits map out onto reality.

But that's the thing about proving the existence of God - by definition, he is unobservable and undetectable. Your other examples rely on observation and/or detection.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:47:01 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:38:07 AM

But that's the thing about proving the existence of God - by definition, he is unobservable and undetectable. Your other examples rely on observation and/or detection.

That's not true at all. The Catholic Church claims to observe God's actions all of the time. A theistic deity is necessarily involved in the world, and the repercussions of its actions should be evident - especially in the case of Yahweh.

My argument is that what we do observe about the Universe and our planet doesn't at all map on to what we should see.

Dustin · October 08, 2014, 11:48:52 AM

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Mad Max · October 08, 2014, 11:51:37 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 08, 2014, 11:47:01 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:38:07 AM
But that's the thing about proving the existence of God - by definition, he is unobservable and undetectable. Your other examples rely on observation and/or detection.
God's actions

Right, but not God himself. That's a pretty big jump to go from observing something you think God is responsible for, to claiming he exists/is responsible for that thing.

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:53:50 AM

Quote from: uıʇsnᗡ on October 08, 2014, 11:48:52 AM

Are you being sarcastic or are you not understanding that 2 + 2 = 4 is a principle, just as much as the laws of physics are? If you can't be certain of principles, then you can't be certain of 2 + 2 = 4.

. . . Dustin, what the fuck are you asking me? Yes, I'm certain 2+2=4 and yes I'm certain the Universe operates according to certain laws.

What's the implication of your question? Of what consequence is it?

More Than Mortal · October 08, 2014, 11:56:08 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 08, 2014, 11:51:37 AM

Right, but not God himself. That's a pretty big jump to go from observing something you think God is responsible for, to claiming he exists/is responsible for that thing.

Not really. The things they apparently observe him doing necessitate some sort of omnipotent deity, and the nature of the things would seem to confirm his omni-benevolence. Adjudicating some actions are done by God isn't a huge leap because such actions could only be performed by such a being.

I'm not saying they're correct by any measure, I'm just saying the Bible offers us some fairly testable ideas about God which can reasonably be falsified. I don't know why you'd resist this since, if anything, it aids in pointing out their delusion.

Aether · October 08, 2014, 11:57:10 AM

Quote from: Flee on October 08, 2014, 07:08:49 AM

absolute certainty, which is virtually impossible to achieve,

Well existence is absolutely certain.