Why can't I be proud to be an American? Why am I racist if I don't want a bunch of illegal immigrants pillaging my tax dollars?

Your parents are immigrants

and being vaginally pushed into Land Formation A rather than Land Formation B is an extremely arbitrary thing to be proud of

Except nobody is proud of being born in a certain country. Patriotism comes from pride in your forefathers and those around you who have managed to succeed in creating a marginally decent society, and raising you right. Of course I'm proud to be British when I compare my country to the likes of say, Pakistan. . . I'm proud my ancestors and my current countrymen, for the most part, do not kill their daughters when they are raped.

It's possible to be proud for others as well as for yourself.

face it--all you're saying is "thank god i was born in a country that doesn't completely suck"

you wanna call that "pride," be my guest--i call it something else

that's pride in your forefathers

Well, yeah. A country is nothing but for its people. What's your point?

If you ask people why they're proud of being British, they aren't going to say "Look at this awesome passport I have!" They're going to tell you about our culture, our history, our institutions; whatever, just something that has to do with the fact that the people who came before us (and who we co-exist with) in a given polity or culture managed to do something correctly.

i'm gonna be blunt with you--being proud of somebody for not being a rapist ("for the most part") is pretty fucking stupid

You're missing the point. People in India and Pakistan will still probably face at least some condemnation for rape; the point is that a bunch of hairless apes within a given border have actually managed to create a society where rape isn't that commonplace, and is almost universally vilified.

I'm not saying we should be proud of ourselves because we aren't going around raping people, I'm saying it's a fucking good thing we have the cultural and institutional set up to actually deal with it properly. These kinds of institutional arrangements are not easy to establish, and certainly not commonplace in the world.

you're not gonna get a pat on the back from me for having the common courtesy not to rape people

Which is probably because you live in a society where rape is so universally reviled; if you had grown up in a culture where rape is commonplace, I think your attitude to non-rapists would be somewhat higher in such a society (assuming you kept the same values).

why not be proud of all marginally decent or greater societies, then?

I am proud of them. An American or a Canadian has just as much a right to be a patriot about their country as I do about mine; the point is that my efforts are probably better focused improving the society I immediately find myself in. But that's not to denigrate the accomplishments of other great societies.

Well, yeah. A country is nothing but for its people. What's your point?

If you ask people why they're proud of being British, they aren't going to say "Look at this awesome passport I have!" They're going to tell you about our culture, our history, our institutions; whatever, just something that has to do with the fact that the people who came before us (and who we co-exist with) in a given polity or culture managed to do something correctly.

my point is that your britishness doesn't actually have anything to do with your country's culture, history, or... anything, really, so it would make more sense to say, "i am proud of my forefathers" or perhaps "i am proud of my country," instead of "i am proud to be british," because your britishness frankly has nothing to do with anything

so, it's a semantic issue for me--it's the choice of words that i don't like, because the tone of nationalism just pisses me off

you can chalk it up to having to speak fewer syllables, if that's your foible, but even then, i would personally just prefer to say, "i care for my country"--it's neutral, agreeable, and a great deal less chauvinistic

i don't think you're a chauvinist, mind you--it's just how the phrase "i'm proud to be [demonym]" comes off

Which is probably because you live in a society where rape is so universally reviled; if you had grown up in a culture where rape is commonplace, I think your attitude to non-rapists would be somewhat higher in such a society (assuming you kept the same values).

well, i'd certainly be a lot happier to see them, but i wouldn't necessarily be proud of them

"pride" is a very fastidious feeling that demands a great deal of effort before i could ever feel it

like, when my country legalized gay marriage, i was proud--i had never felt such pride in my country before

it has to be monumental

my efforts are probably better focused improving the society I immediately find myself in.

why

How retarded must your welfare system be if illegals can claim money from your government. Don't you need ID or something?

They can't claim it without a social security number. It can be faked, but not often. The benefits most anti-immigration people usually talk about is in health care. Our ER's can't turn anyone away.

Artificial crops and humanoid slave robots will be a thing shortly. When that day comes, people will kiss the last excuse they had to keep illegals goodbye.

Kick illegals out and you won't get any food FYI

Quote from: Ian on June 28, 2016, 05:04:37 PM

Artificial crops and humanoid slave robots will be a thing shortly. When that day comes, people will kiss the last excuse they had to keep illegals goodbye.

Quote from: Jono on June 28, 2016, 04:43:14 PM

Kick illegals out and you won't get any food FYI

That really isn't going to happen any time soon.

Like fuck it aint. The dude weed lmao industry has made amazing advancements in the field of personal hydroponic farming and commercial ops are becoming more viable as technology allows for greater yields.

Quote from: Ian on June 28, 2016, 06:36:08 PM

Modern farming has provided great machinery for yielding crops on mass swabs of land, so illegal cheap labor is already extinct for big company farms that have the money to afford such machinery. The illegal labor is used solely by small local farmers who can't afford such devices. As with any growth in technology, what is state of the art will be considered obsolete shortly, allowing for reduced pricing giving local farmers the ability to invest in the machinery of the now. For all practical purposes, illegal immigrants are slowly but most definitely losing their last somewhat valid excuse for being kept in a broken system.

Quote from: challengerX on June 28, 2016, 05:20:15 PM

That really isn't going to happen any time soon.

You're always going to need people for farming.

Besides, that isn't the point. You're talking about people as if they're just a means to an end.

That basically what they are for companies that use illegal immigrants for labor. A means to an end.

They could care less about them.

As in the day of machines doing the majority of farming is still far off because it's more expensive.

Google has a robotic watch dog, I don't think a humanoid robot is that far into the tomorrow.

Because getting beheaded in Mexico is a better alternative?

Latino immigrants don't just enter the US and work these shitty field hand jobs. A lot do, but I don't think it's the majority. Could be wrong, but either way, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

You're acting like so called illegal immigrants need an "excuse" to stay in America as if they don't contribute to the economy. Many of these so called illegal immigrants are more patriotic than a lot of white Americans these days.

I bet the ones you claim are so patriotic are in the system for gaining citizenship. Ones that aren't and are being exploited because they aren't are the problem. I'm not saying choosing to be beheaded by some Spanish drug cartel is a valid choice, but they're here now and should go through the proper channels so the only choice they have to make is either making more than what they do for the same job or better job (through citizenship) or facing the possibility of being deported. Someone would willingly choose not to better their life or the lives of their own family while facing absolutely no consequence makes literally zero sense.

 

How retarded must your welfare system be if illegals can claim money from your government. Don't you need ID or something?

Plenty of illegal immigrants are collecting food stamps thanks to Obama's policies.