What do you think of these "rights"?

More Than Mortal · May 21, 2015, 01:21:32 PM

The right of prisoners to have the vote.

The right of prisoners to have children via artificial insemination.

The right of individuals who promote hatred and intolerance to not be deported if their original country will not respect their human rights.

The right to not be sentenced to life in prison.

Sandtrap · May 21, 2015, 01:30:47 PM

Sketchy on the first one. But, to be fair, there's worse people who already vote anyway.

Sketchy on the second.

Fuck that shit on the third. If you go and move to a country you play by their rules and their culture and make a willing effort to intergarate. Protests are fine, rallies are fine, but promoting a general shitty act and openly, potentially recruiting more followers to the cause is bullshit. Freedom of speech is fine. Protest all you want back in your home country of origin.

Life in prison, for the most part, is reserved for really shitty acts. Here comes the controversy train, choo choo.

Generally I believe if you're that far gone, and you get a sentance like that, then you should honestly just be taken out back and shot. Life in prison is a drain on resources. And it's pampering. While said prisoner, is stuck in prison, and not free, at the same time, they're given commodoties. They're given shit to keep them happy while they spend life in prison, while there are other people out there who struggle to have as much as that when they've done no wrong. That to me, isn't fair.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · May 21, 2015, 01:40:57 PM

Only if a viable way to get information about candidates is available.

Depends on what they are there for. Due to deinstitutionalization many prisoners suffer from various psychological disorders (a few of which can be hereditary). If you have something hereditary that lead to where you are, you shouldn't have children. If you got busted for Mary Jane posession, why not?

I'm not understanding the wording on the third one.

Only if it fits the crime. Life sentencing should be reserved for the most heinous of crimes. Besides, the focus should be on rehibilitation, not punishment. It's hard to say you're prepping someone to rejoin society when they get a life sentence.

Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 01:44:43 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:21:32 PM

The right of prisoners to have the vote.

The right of prisoners to have children via artificial insemination.

The right of individuals who promote hatred and intolerance to not be deported if their original country will not respect their human rights.

The right to not be sentenced to life in prison.

1. Don't give a fuck.
2. Having children is wrong.
3. Don't give a fuck. Actually, I'd like an example of this.
4. No. As Sandtrap said, I'd much rather have you killed at that point, but yeah, no, some people just don't belong in society, at all, ever.

Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 01:48:25 PM

Quote from: Prime Servitor on May 21, 2015, 01:40:57 PM

I'm not understanding the wording on the third one.

Should we deport assholes if their home country is constituted by even bigger assholes?

Sandtrap · May 21, 2015, 01:50:17 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:48:25 PM

Quote from: Prime Servitor on May 21, 2015, 01:40:57 PM
I'm not understanding the wording on the third one.
Should we deport assholes if their home country is constituted by even bigger assholes?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · May 21, 2015, 01:51:09 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:48:25 PM

Quote from: Prime Servitor on May 21, 2015, 01:40:57 PM
I'm not understanding the wording on the third one.
Should we deport assholes if their home country is constituted by even bigger assholes?

That's a tricky one. I'd say yes if not for the humanitarian issue.

More Than Mortal · May 21, 2015, 01:54:02 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:44:43 PM

Actually, I'd like an example of this.

Can't think of any specific examples and be confident in my analysis of them, but there was a big hullabaloo in the British media about not being able to deport certain hate preachers because they could be tortured in the country they were sent back to.

Sandtrap · May 21, 2015, 01:57:41 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:54:02 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:44:43 PM
Actually, I'd like an example of this.
Can't think of any specific examples and be confident in my analysis of them, but there was a big hullabaloo in the British media about not being able to deport certain hate preachers because they could be tortured in the country they were sent back to.

Right. So lets set this down in laymans terms. Their home country hates them so much that they'd get tortured on return. So basically it's a reverse of this image.

Spoiler

Countries are dumping their garbage on the ones that take in immigrants. Hoo boy.

Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 02:00:02 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:54:02 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:44:43 PM
Actually, I'd like an example of this.
Can't think of any specific examples and be confident in my analysis of them, but there was a big hullabaloo in the British media about not being able to deport certain hate preachers because they could be tortured in the country they were sent back to.

Hahahaha. Wow, that's fucked up.

More Than Mortal · May 21, 2015, 02:00:54 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on May 21, 2015, 01:57:41 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:54:02 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on May 21, 2015, 01:44:43 PM
Actually, I'd like an example of this.
Can't think of any specific examples and be confident in my analysis of them, but there was a big hullabaloo in the British media about not being able to deport certain hate preachers because they could be tortured in the country they were sent back to.

Right. So lets set this down in laymans terms. Their home country hates them so much that they'd get tortured on return. So basically it's a reverse of this image.

Spoiler

Countries are dumping their garbage on the ones that take in immigrants. Hoo boy.

Out of interest--because I really want to know--if I put a gun to your head and forced you to vote in the Canadian federal elections, who would you vote for and why? I really can't put my finger on where you lie politically.

And I know you normally reject the establishment wholesale as self-interested and incompetent, which is fair enough, but I want to know which party you think represents you the most. Even if only minimally.

challengerX · May 21, 2015, 02:03:29 PM

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Mad Max · May 21, 2015, 02:05:57 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:21:32 PM

The right of prisoners to have the vote.

No, people currently serving time should not vote.

Quote

The right of prisoners to have children via artificial insemination.

No, people currently serving time should not have children while they are in prison.

Quote

The right of individuals who promote hatred and intolerance to not be deported if their original country will not respect their human rights.

Yes. As long as they aren't ACTUALLY harming people, they aren't doing anything wrong.

Quote

The right to not be sentenced to life in prison.

No, life in prison needs to be available for sentencing.

challengerX · May 21, 2015, 02:07:31 PM

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Mad Max · May 21, 2015, 02:11:10 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:07:31 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:05:57 PM
Yes. As long as they aren't ACTUALLY harming people, they aren't doing anything wrong.
Wrong.

They're not necessarily doing anything illegal, but it most certainly is wrong.

Well, that's what I mean. As long as they aren't breaking the law, I'll let it fly. I don't have to like it or agree with it, but I recognize the legality of what they're doing.

challengerX · May 21, 2015, 02:13:02 PM

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Magos Domina · May 21, 2015, 02:13:58 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:21:32 PM

The right of prisoners to have the vote.

The right of prisoners to have children via artificial insemination.

The right of individuals who promote hatred and intolerance to not be deported if their original country will not respect their human rights.

The right to not be sentenced to life in prison.

1. They should
2. If they're serving long sentences then yeah
3. If they're going to be executed then they shouldn't be sent back.
4. If the persons crime warrants it (like murder) then tough shit. Life they get. If it's some insane NK judicial system were people get life for criticising the government then yeah I call bs

Magos Domina · May 21, 2015, 02:16:50 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:13:02 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:05:57 PM
Yes. As long as they aren't ACTUALLY harming people, they aren't doing anything wrong.
Wrong.

They're not necessarily doing anything illegal, but it most certainly is wrong.
Well, that's what I mean. As long as they aren't breaking the law, I'll let it fly. I don't have to like it or agree with it, but I recognize the legality of what they're doing.
They should be deported.

If they're so in love with a Caliphate, for example, why are they afraid to be deported back to where ISIS is creating a caliphate? Dream come true right?

I think it'd teach these people to shut the fuck up.

Can we deport you and your family back to wogistan?

PSU · May 21, 2015, 02:22:56 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 01:21:32 PM

The right of prisoners to have the vote.

The right of prisoners to have children via artificial insemination.

The right of individuals who promote hatred and intolerance to not be deported if their original country will not respect their human rights.

The right to not be sentenced to life in prison.

-prisoners should have zero rights
-same as #1
-if you disrespect America and your an illegal or on a visa, you should be deported ASAP
-We should do away with life in prison and give everyone who commits a murder or a rape the death penalty.

Flee · May 21, 2015, 02:24:39 PM

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Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 02:24:43 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:13:02 PM

They should be deported.

If they're so in love with a Caliphate, for example, why are they afraid to be deported back to where ISIS is creating a caliphate? Dream come true right?

I think it'd teach these people to shut the fuck up.

I'm inclined to agree.

Mad Max · May 21, 2015, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:13:02 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:05:57 PM
Yes. As long as they aren't ACTUALLY harming people, they aren't doing anything wrong.
Wrong.

They're not necessarily doing anything illegal, but it most certainly is wrong.
Well, that's what I mean. As long as they aren't breaking the law, I'll let it fly. I don't have to like it or agree with it, but I recognize the legality of what they're doing.
They should be deported.

If they're so in love with a Caliphate, for example, why are they afraid to be deported back to where ISIS is creating a caliphate? Dream come true right?

I think it'd teach these people to shut the fuck up.

If we deported all the people who didn't like what the government was doing, that's not a great way to handle your citizens.

Naoto · May 21, 2015, 02:27:16 PM

I'm inclined to agree with all but the last one.

3rd is a bit tricky I suppose as well. Citizens should have complete freedom of speech, but if a non-citizen is coming over and supporting acts of terrorism and calling for violence I see no reason to continue to allow them to be guests in the country.

Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 02:27:30 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:25:11 PM

If we deported all the people who didn't like what the government was doing, that's not a great way to handle your citizens.

we aren't going to deport "all the people" who don't like our government, though

besides, they clearly have zero interest in being a citizen anyway

PSU · May 21, 2015, 02:28:36 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:13:02 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: challengerX on May 21, 2015, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:05:57 PM
Yes. As long as they aren't ACTUALLY harming people, they aren't doing anything wrong.
Wrong.

They're not necessarily doing anything illegal, but it most certainly is wrong.
Well, that's what I mean. As long as they aren't breaking the law, I'll let it fly. I don't have to like it or agree with it, but I recognize the legality of what they're doing.
They should be deported.

If they're so in love with a Caliphate, for example, why are they afraid to be deported back to where ISIS is creating a caliphate? Dream come true right?

I think it'd teach these people to shut the fuck up.
If we deported all the people who didn't like what the government was doing, that's not a great way to handle your citizens.

Not necessarily just disrespect to the government. I'm imagining people who say shit like "death to America" and "America deserved 9/11" while living off the government. Deport them without second thought.

More Than Mortal · May 21, 2015, 02:40:56 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:25:11 PM

If we deported all the people who didn't like what the government was doing, that's not a great way to handle your citizens.

There's a difference between annoying the government and then actively calling for the abolition of the British or American state on the basis of some medieval ideology.

Mad Max · May 21, 2015, 02:41:55 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 21, 2015, 02:40:56 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:25:11 PM
If we deported all the people who didn't like what the government was doing, that's not a great way to handle your citizens.
There's a difference between annoying the government and then actively calling for the abolition of the British or American state on the basis of some medieval ideology.

So? It's not illegal to do that.

More Than Mortal · May 21, 2015, 02:43:36 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on May 21, 2015, 02:41:55 PM

So? It's not illegal to do that.

Fairly certain it comes under incitement. Flee would know more, though.

Flee · May 21, 2015, 02:50:33 PM

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Verbatim · May 21, 2015, 02:51:54 PM

Quote from: Flee on May 21, 2015, 02:50:33 PM

An outright ban on this should not be okay, however.

why