What's your beef with the transgender crowd?

Coco · December 30, 2014, 12:34:10 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 12:29:36 PM

But i'm talking about the people who deliberately and continually call someone by the wrong name.

Oh, well yeah, that's being an asshole. But I'd probably be an asshole if a transgendered person was being a stuck up douchebag about me assuming their pronoun or slipping up.

Verbatim · December 30, 2014, 12:36:42 PM

Quote from: Mega Sceptile on December 30, 2014, 12:02:55 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 30, 2014, 12:00:22 PM
Quote from: Mega Sceptile on December 30, 2014, 11:58:37 AM
I only do shit like that when said transgender person is either being a cunt about it, or is trying to pull the special snowflake check your privilege bullshit
i think they've earned their right to be cunty about it, to be honest
a little bit
I disagree, no one has the right to act like a cunt and not be treated as such.

in circumstances that cocos is describing, i can agree somewhat

but to the people that mad max is describing, not so much

Dustin · December 30, 2014, 12:38:40 PM

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Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 12:49:43 PM

Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 12:38:40 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 12:05:41 PM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:27:43 AM
Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 11:20:25 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:12:13 AM
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 30, 2014, 11:07:34 AM
Quote from: PSU on December 30, 2014, 10:20:39 AM
In my eyes, if you have a dick you're a man.

I will call you a man. Not to piss you off or anything petty like that. Its because you LITERALLY ARE a man.

So say that they had surgery to remove the crown jewels, what would you then call them?
XX or XY
Gender has nothing to do with your chromosomes.
Masculinity is based off the biological traits of males and femininity is based off the biological traits of females. So yes gender is related to sex.
It's really not that simple. Asserting so makes you look pretty ignorant of the subject.
If you're insane enough to say that there's no correlation between gender and sex then there's no discussion to be had. It's not like I'm saying transgenders are bad people or that sex change is wrong, I'm just saying that gender isn't a social construct and that you can't have a gender without a correlating sex, unless you devalue the word gender to mean any type of personality.

And my point is that just because you're XX or XY doesn't mean your gender matches your sex.

Dustin · December 30, 2014, 12:50:48 PM

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Naru · December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM

I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.

Comet · December 30, 2014, 01:42:16 PM

read title as: what's your beef with the transgender cows?

i dont have one. i just end up using the screen name in place of he/she.

Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM

I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.

Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.

Naru · December 30, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.

Saying you're another gender isn't.. Exactly normal. Disorder or not, I think it is.

Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 02:09:30 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.
Saying you're another gender isn't.. Exactly normal. Disorder or not, I think it is.

Yes, it's unusual and uncommon. Doesn't mean it's a disorder, though.

Naru · December 30, 2014, 02:11:15 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:09:30 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:08:23 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.
Saying you're another gender isn't.. Exactly normal. Disorder or not, I think it is.
Yes, it's unusual and uncommon. Doesn't mean it's a disorder, though.

I don't know man, Psychology class brought a lot of information to me

Mr. Psychologist · December 30, 2014, 02:29:32 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:11:15 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:08:23 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.
Saying you're another gender isn't.. Exactly normal. Disorder or not, I think it is.
Yes, it's unusual and uncommon. Doesn't mean it's a disorder, though.
I don't know man, Psychology class brought a lot of information to me

Same here, and I had the same problem when the shit that's in the textbooks was incompatible with the real world <.<

It might be technically a disorder, but someone who is perfectly happy with themselves after they've changed isn't mentally ill. IIRC the disorder arises from the mental illness caused by having the wrong mind/body combo and not just from having a mismatched identity <.<

Two examples

Person X and Person Y.

Person X is biologically female (XX) but is transgender and identifies as male.
Person Y is biologically male (XY) but is transgender and identifies as female.

Person X goes through the system/treatment/therapies/surgery and is now 'male'. They don't have any distress, problems, abuse, illness arising from it and all goes well.

Person Y goes through the same process but is suffering from depression/other problems directly attributable to them being transgender. They have to seek professional help about it to overcome the disorder and eventually come through fine in the same manner as X.

It might be a disorder on the books, but Person X functions perfectly fine and doesn't suffer from any serious issues as a result of the transition. Do they have a disorder? Or an illness? <.<
I don't think so >.>

Person Y does, because it has caused them grief and they needed treatment >.>

The other thing to note is that the trouble with labelling someone as having a disorder would imply that there is something wrong with them that needs correcting. When that's not necessarily the case <.<
Or the correcting is to simply change their body to suit their mind. Because all the previous times that scientists/doctors/quacks have tried to change someone's mind rather than their physical form have ended... badly... >.>

R o c k e t · December 30, 2014, 02:37:33 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 30, 2014, 02:29:32 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:11:15 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 02:08:23 PM
Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.
Saying you're another gender isn't.. Exactly normal. Disorder or not, I think it is.
Yes, it's unusual and uncommon. Doesn't mean it's a disorder, though.
I don't know man, Psychology class brought a lot of information to me
Same here, and I had the same problem when the shit that's in the textbooks was incompatible with the real world <.<

It might be technically a disorder, but someone who is perfectly happy with themselves after they've changed isn't mentally ill. IIRC the disorder arises from the mental illness caused by having the wrong mind/body combo and not just from having a mismatched identity <.<

Two examples

Person X and Person Y.

Person X is biologically female (XX) but is transgender and identifies as male.
Person Y is biologically male (XY) but is transgender and identifies as female.

Person X goes through the system/treatment/therapies/surgery and is now 'male'. They don't have any distress, problems, abuse, illness arising from it and all goes well.

Person Y goes through the same process but is suffering from depression/other problems directly attributable to them being transgender. They have to seek professional help about it to overcome the disorder and eventually come through fine in the same manner as X.

It might be a disorder on the books, but Person X functions perfectly fine and doesn't suffer from any serious issues as a result of the transition. Do they have a disorder? Or an illness? <.<
I don't think so >.>

Person Y does, because it has caused them grief and they needed treatment >.>

The other thing to note is that the trouble with labelling someone as having a disorder would imply that there is something wrong with them that needs correcting. When that's not necessarily the case <.<
Or the correcting is to simply change their body to suit their mind. Because all the previous times that scientists/doctors/quacks have tried to change someone's mind rather than their physical form have ended... badly... >.>

Well dang. That pretty much nailed it.
Well done Psy

Verbatim · December 30, 2014, 03:30:36 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM

Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.

How do you define disorder, then?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · December 30, 2014, 03:39:47 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 30, 2014, 03:30:36 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 02:06:06 PM
Quote from: Naru (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
I'm fine with calling you a he or she, just, I believe it's a disorder.
Well, some of the stuff associated with it is a disorder. Simply being trans isn't a disorder.
How do you define disorder, then?

I think he's saying that transgenderism is a result of a disorder, not the disorder itself.

Verbatim · December 30, 2014, 03:41:45 PM

I can make sense out of that.

ಠ_ಠ · December 30, 2014, 04:28:15 PM

Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 12:19:14 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 30, 2014, 12:06:09 PM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:58:15 AM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 30, 2014, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:41:39 AM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 30, 2014, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 30, 2014, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:35:17 AM
Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 30, 2014, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 11:17:33 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 30, 2014, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 09:52:59 AM
Changing your gender is a disorder.
Not true. Transgenderism isn't a disorder of itself, but dysmorphia is. The two are simply highly correlated.
I'm sure you're right, I don't actually know the difference between the two. Honestly I just dislike the transgenders on this forum.

And what is the motivation for you disliking them?
Them disliking me.

And why on Earth would they dislike you?
Why are you asking me?

You honestly don't know of any reasons why somebody would dislike you?
It's nice to find the root of an issue.
I don't know why you're trying to turn it around on me like I'm responsible. ChallengerX is the only user in which I was the one who intently started shit, though that's not actually anything serious.

Nah, I'm just saying.

Considering how you post, it's not much surprise why some people just won't become best friends with you. You can say the wrong thing sometimes. Just look at some of your threads and you'll see what I mean. Most of what you say isn't received well.
Your approval is not my priority. If you're easily offended by my jokes then it's your responsibility to mute me, not my responsibility to say things that don't hurt your feelings. Anyway, I know the reason you don't like me is because I didn't give Nuka free money, so you can kindly fuck off.

Actually no, not true at all. What you do with your money is your decision.
Obviously he didn't need it because there was so much support, which works out for you as well. You see what just happened there? You just assumed something about me. That's another motivation for people to dislike you, you've got to watch out for that.

Let's lay that aside now, this thread isn't about petty personal issues.

How would you sum up your personal view on transgender people?
Love them?
Hate them?
Think it is strange?
You are tolerant, but you also don't understand?
Actually he didn't need it because he should have got a job instead of begging people for money on the Internet, and then bastardizing those that didn't give him anything. Actually no, the real problem is that he shouldn't have acted like a douche bag to me and then suddenly asked me for money as if the world works like that.

And there's plenty I can nitpick off you for being a lousy, dislike-able person, but I'm going to save it and report your posts instead with the hope we won't have to deal with your shitty job as monitor anymore.

Something is seriously wrong with you if you think I personally care about whether you personally gave anything or not. Newsflash: I don't. I've said this so many times. I don't even know how many times I said that no one had to do anything. I didn't ask for Sandtrap to put that up for me. I also shut it down once he gave me the password and went into chemo.

I realize that you're gonna be a little bitch about this entire issue now since you were obsessed enough to get Sand's thread taken down on Bungie and him banned, but I know you didn't give a shit before. And that's why you'll continued to just be ignored.

Also I know you love throwing around the job excuse, but jobs around here aren't all that easy to come by from what's walking and biking distance. There's one little plaza nearby and I've already stopped by all the little stores asking if they're hiring. I've been playing the waiting game with applications I turned in. Also it's the holidays and I'm in a position I can somewhat live with, so it is partially on hold so that I can take things easy for a while before I go full steam ahead with my life.

So anyways, if you want to continue to be obsessed and make this about me, that's your deal. At least I'm not the pathetic one here.

ಠ_ಠ · December 30, 2014, 04:31:48 PM

Anyways I would really prefer if this didn't become something about me, but I felt the need to say something. It's fucking annoying when people go around spewing twisted facts.

Dustin · December 30, 2014, 04:34:09 PM

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Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 04:36:10 PM

Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 04:34:09 PM

Quote from: Nuka (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
Anyways I would really prefer if this didn't become something about me, but I felt the need to say something. It's fucking annoying when people go around spewing twisted facts.
Maybe if you didn't spew twisted facts about me? But I guess it doesn't matter any more since Noelle left and called you cunt.

What facts about you are there to twist? You spend your time trolling these places. You have no identity or personality - just whatever you think will rile people up on that particular day.

Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 04:36:32 PM

Quote from: Nuka (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 04:31:48 PM

Anyways I would really prefer if this didn't become something about me, but I felt the need to say something. It's fucking annoying when people go around spewing twisted facts.

No worries, I didn't even have you in mind when I made this thread.

Dustin · December 30, 2014, 04:39:41 PM

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Mad Max · December 30, 2014, 04:43:56 PM

Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 04:39:41 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on December 30, 2014, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: WBC Dustin on December 30, 2014, 04:34:09 PM
Quote from: Nuka (っ◕‿◕)っ on December 30, 2014, 04:31:48 PM
Anyways I would really prefer if this didn't become something about me, but I felt the need to say something. It's fucking annoying when people go around spewing twisted facts.
Maybe if you didn't spew twisted facts about me? But I guess it doesn't matter any more since Noelle left and called you cunt.
What facts about you are there to twist? You spend your time trolling these places. You have no identity or personality - just whatever you think will rile people up on that particular day.
I have no political identity but as far as personality and personal identity goes that isn't true.

I genuinely have no idea what your real personality and identity are. I have literally no way to distinguish between your troll posts and real posts. You're just a ghost. So..congrats? if that's what you were going for.

aREALgod · December 31, 2014, 05:17:16 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 29, 2014, 11:41:48 PM

No one should care about what pronouns people use to refer to you. I only acquiesce because it's apparently SUCH a big deal.

For once, I agree with Verbatim. Who gives a real damn? I won't call you "she" until that flopping penis between your legs is turned into labia. It just feels weird to call a dude "she" or "her" when everything about their body is "he". You feel like a she? Okay, well, until you turn into one, that's nice. Oh, you're offended? Cry me a river.

It doesn't mean I seek to offend, I just don't care to give in to all the trivial details and appease people because, "muh feelingz".

Sandtrap · December 31, 2014, 05:35:48 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 31, 2014, 05:17:16 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 29, 2014, 11:41:48 PM
No one should care about what pronouns people use to refer to you. I only acquiesce because it's apparently SUCH a big deal.

For once, I agree with Verbatim. Who gives a real damn? I won't call you "she" until that flopping penis between your legs is turned into labia. It just feels weird to call a dude "she" or "her" when everything about their body is "he". You feel like a she? Okay, well, until you turn into one, that's nice. Oh, you're offended? Cry me a river.

It doesn't mean I seek to offend, I just don't care to give in to all the trivial details and appease people because, "muh feelingz".

Just a question here. You ever have parents or siblings act like cunts? Did you ever call them cunts? How about people you're not fond of? Do you call them by name or call them like you see them?

Because if you don't? You're a hypocrite. Taking a wild guess here, even if you bumped into the person you hated the most as a kid today, you wouldn't call them by any of the names you gave them in your head as a kid. You might call them an asshole. But only once. But you wouldn't continue calling it like you see it. If so, then why so selective in your choice of words, or in this case, not selective in your choice?

I mean if we're going to discard the "trivial details" then why not do it for everybody?

Oh but that's right.

Walking up to your mother and calling her a bitch when she's being one or is one would probably result in

A) Getting your shit slapped
B) Getting into a big fucking argument with family

Which means that all your talk here likely can't be backed up in person because everybody has a family member who's been an asshole or a bitch.

If I'm wrong, then you know what?

You'd be fantastic at parties.

Turkey · December 31, 2014, 05:38:42 PM

Something that's bugged me is if transpeople don't feel like a man or woman (and I know 'feeling' is an oversimplification), doesn't that enforce societal gender roles? On one hand, we've got a large movement saying boys should be able to play with girls' toys and wear girls' clothes while girls should be free to do traditional boy activities, but it seems like that is entirely contrary to the notion of transpeople undertaking physical changes to be more like the opposite sex.

I find it hard to sympathize with the struggle because I can't relate to it at all. I recognize the problem and know I should care more, but I feel very apathetic about it.

Sandtrap · December 31, 2014, 05:43:33 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 05:38:42 PM

Something that's bugged me is if transpeople don't feel like a man or woman (and I know 'feeling' is an oversimplification), doesn't that enforce societal gender roles? On one hand, we've got a large movement saying boys should be able to play with girls' toys and wear girls' clothes while girls should be free to do traditional boy activities, but it seems like that is entirely contrary to the notion of transpeople undertaking physical changes to be more like the opposite sex.

I find it hard to sympathize with the struggle because I can't relate to it at all. I recognize the problem and know I should care more, but I feel very apathetic about it.

Well. That's a good point. But I betcha something. If those "gender roles" were slacked off a bit, then maybe trans folks wouldn't recieve so much heat. A more open and tolerant society in terms of what men and woman can do and wear would likely ease the strain on trans folks as well.

But as it stands? Yes, you're right. And you know why? Because the current generation of trans folks fit into and think about gender roles the same way just like most of society does currently.

Yu · December 31, 2014, 05:53:29 PM

I don't.

Groot · December 31, 2014, 06:09:09 PM

Quote from: Auld Lang Turkey on December 31, 2014, 05:38:42 PM

Something that's bugged me is if transpeople don't feel like a man or woman (and I know 'feeling' is an oversimplification), doesn't that enforce societal gender roles? On one hand, we've got a large movement saying boys should be able to play with girls' toys and wear girls' clothes while girls should be free to do traditional boy activities, but it seems like that is entirely contrary to the notion of transpeople undertaking physical changes to be more like the opposite sex.

I find it hard to sympathize with the struggle because I can't relate to it at all. I recognize the problem and know I should care more, but I feel very apathetic about it.

For me it's been more of a struggle with my body being the wrong way. How I know this absolutely and objectively, I don't know; it's just intrinsic for me and it's constantly there.

As far as societal gender roles, I tend to get most pissed off and get the most flak when they're forced upon me, rather than me moving toward ones not associated with my birth gender. Like being strong and tough and being expected to protect. Signing up for the draft caused me a lot of grief.

aREALgod · December 31, 2014, 06:11:13 PM

Quote from: Sandtrap on December 31, 2014, 05:35:48 PM

Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 31, 2014, 05:17:16 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on December 29, 2014, 11:41:48 PM
No one should care about what pronouns people use to refer to you. I only acquiesce because it's apparently SUCH a big deal.

For once, I agree with Verbatim. Who gives a real damn? I won't call you "she" until that flopping penis between your legs is turned into labia. It just feels weird to call a dude "she" or "her" when everything about their body is "he". You feel like a she? Okay, well, until you turn into one, that's nice. Oh, you're offended? Cry me a river.

It doesn't mean I seek to offend, I just don't care to give in to all the trivial details and appease people because, "muh feelingz".

Just a question here. You ever have parents or siblings act like cunts? Did you ever call them cunts? How about people you're not fond of? Do you call them by name or call them like you see them?

Because if you don't? You're a hypocrite. Taking a wild guess here, even if you bumped into the person you hated the most as a kid today, you wouldn't call them by any of the names you gave them in your head as a kid. You might call them an asshole. But only once. But you wouldn't continue calling it like you see it. If so, then why so selective in your choice of words, or in this case, not selective in your choice?

I mean if we're going to discard the "trivial details" then why not do it for everybody?

Oh but that's right.

Walking up to your mother and calling her a bitch when she's being one or is one would probably result in

A) Getting your shit slapped
B) Getting into a big fucking argument with family

Which means that all your talk here likely can't be backed up in person because everybody has a family member who's been an asshole or a bitch.

If I'm wrong, then you know what?

You'd be fantastic at parties.

I don't see how someone I dislike or acting like an asshole has anything to do with calling someone "he", "she", or "cunt". Nor do I see hypocrisy.