The entire abortion debate always skips over the real question and focuses on a pointless technicality, the discussion here is not "at what point does a fetus become human, and who can claim legal authority over it?", no, the discussion is meant to be "Should people be held responsible for their actions, and should society encourage people to avoid self destructive behavior, especially if it leads to societal collapse?".
Specifically, "Should women face repercussions for being sluts,
and should society reinforce traditional family oriented lifestyles?"
Because that's all this boils down to, should women be allowed to fuck whoever they want whenever they want with little regard to it's effects on a society
or should a patriarchal authority slap some sense into them and encourage them to get married and have children instead?
All the focus on "but what if she's raped? but what if the baby's disabled? but what if x?" Is a deliberate distraction to avoid talking about the fact that when you encourage abortions for everyone, you change the culture to one where sluts are allowed to get away with anything.
>but what about men? men can sleep around so why not women?It's a good question but always asked for the wrong reasons. Men should be held to a high standard since it's their job to keep the women and children in line
but this counter point is always brought up as "men and women are equal, so both should be allowed to be sluts" Wrong, they're not equal, but they both need to be chaste for society to function.
>it's my body my choice, who gave you the authority to control me?Who gave you the authority to piss away your genes and fuck your society into oblivion?
Actions have consequences and the second a society thinks about raising families and instead being a hedonist
so tell me sluts, why should you be allowed to destroy everything your ancestors built for you?
>why can't i live an alternative lifestyle that doesn't revolve around kids? where's the freedom in that?Show me one, just one, society that survived after indulging in all it's hedonistic desires.
Really you have to ask yourself, why am I even having sex with this person in the first place? if your answer is anything other than "because I'm growing closer to them so we can better raise our kids together" then you've missed the point of sex entirely and are just thinking with your dick.
Yes, people should be held responsible for their actions.Abortion is one of the most responsible decisions a person could ever make.
The repercussions are social ostracization--that's all there needs to be.
Absolutely not.
Yes.Never.
Which is for the better--except that sluts would still be ostracized, and that's a good thing.
Nope. If anything, women should keep men in line.
If they both need to be chaste in order for society to function, which I agree with, that is still equality. The freedom for both sexes to do whatever they want with their bodies is also equality.
Genes should be pissed away, and society should be fucked into oblivion.
This has so little to do with hedonism, it's insane. It's more hedonistic to want children. It's less hedonistic to save a child from having a life--which is the greatest thing a human being could ever possibly do.Okay, now I'm injecting anti-natalism into this. For sure.
I can't speak for sluts because I'm not one, but why shouldn't they be able to destroy everything their ancestors "built for them"? Everything our ancestors built for us fucking sucks. If anything, we should make abortions an Olympic sport. Whoever can have the most abortions in a year wins a gold medal. It should be celebrated.(fucking lol, this is as funny as though ancap comics about ending every dispute with a TOW missile)
Again, this isn't about hedonism. It is more hedonistic to live in a society where children are wantonly born into a shit world, because you have this ego problem where you want your genes to be spread for generations for some selfish, arbitrary reason.This statement also implies that society should survive. It shouldn't.
No intelligent, rational person cares about the biological "point" of sex, and they shouldn't.#KillAllBabies.
I'll get to these later on, but since I reply to everything this could very easily blow out to a three post reply if you post such short answers like that.
Quote from: Azendac on December 04, 2016, 09:46:02 PMAll the focus on "but what if she's raped? but what if the baby's disabled? but what if x?" Is a deliberate distraction to avoid talking about the fact that when you encourage abortions for everyone, you change the culture to one where sluts are allowed to get away with anything.I know people who have had to legitimately face the possibility of having abortions for reasons beyond their control; one woman's child was discovered to have a heart tumor that, taken close to (through) term, could have killed the both of them. That would have left her three year old child and husband alone. They actually couldn't have the abortion, funny enough, because my state doesn't allow abortions for any reason past a certain point, and the insurance wouldn't have covered the procedure if they went out of state. Luckily she and child both survived.
This idea that literally the only people that have abortions, or might have abortions, are a bunch of airhead sluts who just want to fuck without repercussions pisses me off a bit, to say the least. Nobody is fucking encouraging abortions (well, except Verb), it just shouldn't be left up to a seventy year-old congressman to decide when or if it's okay to terminate a pregnancy.
Quote from: Azendac on December 04, 2016, 11:07:25 PMI'll get to these later on, but since I reply to everything this could very easily blow out to a three post reply if you post such short answers like that.I have finals to study for, so I'll respond to this post in full sometime tomorrow or maybe even later if you're still interested.But I did want to respond to this bit because I think it's important to get out of the way:The length of my responses to individual points tends to be proportional to the respect I have for the question. If I feel a question deserves a long enough answer, I'll give it one. If I think the question is stupid, expect a one word answer or less. I'm willing and able to elaborate on any and all of my opinions, but not if I think the question insults my intelligence.
Even if abortions are not specifically being promoted, contraceptives and related things that will inevitably lead to abortions are being promoted. Even if that's not their intention, that is the end result.
“These trends suggest that women and couples in the developed world have become more successful at avoiding unintended pregnancies—the cause of most abortions—over the last two decades,” says Dr. Sedgh, lead author of the study and a principal research scientist at the Guttmacher Institute. “High abortion rates are directly correlated to high levels of unmet contraceptive need. Our findings indicate that in many developing regions, women lack the contraceptive services they need and are unable to prevent pregnancies they do not want to have.”When countries were grouped according to their abortion laws, the researchers found no significant difference in abortion rates for 2010–2014 between countries where abortion is legal and where it is restricted. In countries where the procedure was prohibited altogether or permitted only to save a woman’s life, the abortion rate was 37 per 1,000, and in countries where it was available on request, the abortion rate was 34 per 1,000.“Estimates for the proportion of abortions that are unsafe are under development, but it is likely that where access to safe abortion is limited, women may turn to clandestine procedures that are often unsafe. Making greater investments in quality family planning services would help reduce the rates of unintended pregnancy and therefore overall abortion rates,” says Bela Ganatra, a scientist with the World Health Organization’s Department of Reproductive Health and Research and a coauthor of the study. “Ensuring that women and couples have access to a wide range of methods to choose from and receive comprehensive information about how to use their chosen method consistently and correctly is sound public health policy.”
Quote from: 「Prime」 on December 04, 2016, 11:43:45 PM If people are still fucking around and ejaculating away their lives in meaningless degeneracy, then it's still a bad thing.
Quote from: Azendac on December 05, 2016, 12:29:02 AMQuote from: 「Prime」 on December 04, 2016, 11:43:45 PM If people are still fucking around and ejaculating away their lives in meaningless degeneracy, then it's still a bad thing.And it's not the government's place to decide that.
I'm not ignoring contraceptive measures either, as that supports my argument. We don't have a significant number of people who have unprotected sex then turn around and get abortions because people who don't want kids get UIDs, tube tied/vasectomies, and have protected sex. That is entirely my issue with your argument: this proposition that abortions are bad because it means that people will just have huge orgies of bareback sex. This is the exact opposite of what is happening: people who are aware of how to prevent pregnancies don't get pregnant, and those who want or need to get rid of a pregnancy will do so regardless of its legality.
And as for the vent, yes, if only because society has been historically prudish. But thinking that it means we'll end up in a Brave New World scenario because of it is like saying that the gay marriage ruling in the US means that the pedos and dog-fuckers will be next. Look at the events surrounding it rather than it itself: western responses to regressive cultures, societal warming to non-heterosexual relationships, feminist ideals becoming accepted by western culture, the shrinking number of religious-extremists (sans radical islamists), etc.
It's not like we will all just wake up one day and said, "you know what we need? Nudity at 2pm." Unless some sort of precedent occurs for it, it won't. And I'm sorry, but legal abortions are not affecting that level of promiscuity; referring back to the article in the previous post, abortion rates where it's legal are consistent (if not slightly lower) with those where abortion is prohibited. If banning it won't change the figures anyway, then it can only benefit society by remaining legal; if it happens, at least it's safe.
The entire abortion debate always skips over the real question and focuses on a pointless technicality, the discussion here is not "at what point does a fetus become human, and who can claim legal authority over it?", no, the discussion is meant to be "Should people be held responsible for their actions, and should society encourage people to avoid self destructive behavior, especially if it leads to societal collapse?".Specifically, "Should women face repercussions for being sluts, and should society reinforce traditional family oriented lifestyles?" Because that's all this boils down to, should women be allowed to fuck whoever they want whenever they want with little regard to it's effects on a society, or should a patriarchal authority slap some sense into them and encourage them to get married and have children instead?. All the focus on "but what if she's raped? but what if the baby's disabled? but what if x?" Is a deliberate distraction to avoid talking about the fact that when you encourage abortions for everyone, you change the culture to one where sluts are allowed to get away with anything. That's the effect whether you intend for it to happen or not, it's happened every time in human history going back to fucking ancient Greece where they even made a play about it, this discussion is nothing new and the results always speak for themselves. Now, some common rebuttals:>but what about men? men can sleep around so why not women?It's a good question but always asked for the wrong reasons. Men should be held to a high standard since it's their job to keep the women and children in line, but this counter point is always brought up as "men and women are equal, so both should be allowed to be sluts" Wrong, they're not equal, but they both need to be chaste for society to function.>it's my body my choice, who gave you the authority to control me?Who gave you the authority to piss away your genes and fuck your society into oblivion? Actions have consequences and the second a society stops thinking about raising families and instead thinks about being a hedonist, is when it starts to decline and ultimately collapse. A slut can only get away with their actions if they live in a society that has been built up over centuries, so that their actions take a while to whittle away at the foundations, in poetic terms you can only destroy what's been created, so tell me sluts, why should you be allowed to destroy everything your ancestors built for you?>why can't i live an alternative lifestyle that doesn't revolve around kids? where's the freedom in that?Show me one, just one, society that survived after indulging in all it's hedonistic desires. Pro tip, there isn't. And before you point to any modern country, I'll remind you that Trump wouldn't have been elected and far right parties wouldn't be surging in popularity if that were the case.—Really you have to ask yourself, why am I even having sex with this person in the first place? if your answer is anything other than "because I'm growing closer to them so we can better raise our kids together" then you've missed the point of sex entirely and are just thinking with your dick.
Killing all the players does in a sense prevent them from ever losing the game, but does nothing to help a living player win, so to speak.
In the case of aborting a disabled or otherwise retarded child, yes it's very Eugenically responsible. In the case of aborting because "oops forgot the condom", then it's a case of having your orgasm and eating it too. It's allowing someone to make incredibly poor plans and decisions (with all the contraceptives available and knowledge of female menstrual cycles, you have no excuse for getting pregnant on accident). Very irresponsible in that case.
Eh, I don't see how you could balance allowing sluts to get away with anything slutty, and also having everyone ostracize them. Unless I've misread your post, I had to re-read it a few times.
What would you say about a hypothetical "anti natalism gene" that turns anyone who has it into you ideologically?
Orgasms literally exists as a way to bribe animals into reproducing, it's a drug hit that can only be justified (from a non- anti natalist perspective) by following it up with offspring. Anti natalism has no justification for or against non-reproductive sex.
you don't have any problem with abortion, so you shouldn't have a problem with ancestors aborting would be anti-natalists.
This statement also implies that society should survive. It shouldn't.
Again, a situation in which society collapses is both boring and trivial
I get where you're coming from, bro, but this is way too collectivist and top-down oversight for my libertarian blood.Society should chastise sluts with five kids from four daddies, but the government should have no hand in this.
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 05, 2016, 12:16:37 PMI get where you're coming from, bro, but this is way too collectivist and top-down oversight for my libertarian blood.Society should chastise sluts with five kids from four daddies, but the government should have no hand in this.Don't make me fucking tread on you.
Quote from: Azendac on December 05, 2016, 04:54:29 PMQuote from: DAS B00T x2 on December 05, 2016, 12:16:37 PMI get where you're coming from, bro, but this is way too collectivist and top-down oversight for my libertarian blood.Society should chastise sluts with five kids from four daddies, but the government should have no hand in this.Don't make me fucking tread on you.
YouTubeBig government also has a big pen0r.
>Come to the thread>Thread is arguing about the inherent value of men over women as opposed to abortion rightsWewIt's kinda like I missed this place but the exact opposite
for a mistake which could take as little as 20 seconds
oh btw highfive for returning after leaving, all the cool kids did that and by that I mean me and you.
Quote from: Azendac on December 07, 2016, 03:10:46 AMoh btw highfive for returning after leaving, all the cool kids did that and by that I mean me and you.Wait, you're not a newfag?
It's Cadenza.
Why abortion should be legal
