Quote from: باب عيد الميلاد on December 03, 2016, 01:59:14 PM

Exactly. This is why its also totally cool to murder abort bed-bound vegetables, retarded people, and certain ethnic groups.

I would be lying if I said I didn't think that sufficiently mentally handicapped people are a burden on society. If there was a way of knowing ahead of time that my child was going to be a husk of a human being that could never amount to anything, I wouldn't hesitate to terminate the pregnancy (Assuming my wife and I were on the same page). The process of raising and caring for not just a child, but a retarded child is more draining than most people are capable of recognizing. It's often romanticized by acting like the process of caring for a severely disabled individual is a symbol of unending love and strength, but it's an unnecessary one; the world would be better off without the mentally disabled. Think of how much that person consumes the lives of the people who have to care for it, namely the family? It's heartbreaking.

If a "Bed-bound vegetable" has no chance of recovery, what's the point in keeping them on life support? They're functionally dead. Pull the plug.

And your ethnic groups example doesn't even make sense.

Just gonna nitpick out of old habits

Where do you draw the line between the different degrees of mental disability to determine Keep/Abort?

We'll go with the hypothetical where you can scan a foetus and determine it's mental state at 18 y/o, what sort of disability makes the difference between aborting it and keeping it?

Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on December 03, 2016, 03:59:03 PM

Just gonna nitpick out of old habits

Where do you draw the line between the different degrees of mental disability to determine Keep/Abort?

We'll go with the hypothetical where you can scan a foetus and determine it's mental state at 18 y/o, what sort of disability makes the difference between aborting it and keeping it?

Unfortunately I'll admit that there are certain disabilities that are somewhat predictable in their own right with varying degrees of severity, but I wouldn't necessarily abort someone who was going to have, say, mild autism (If  my understanding of it is correct), or ADHD. It's sort of a case-by-case basis, where I would need to be handed a description of whatever mental disability my child had the potential to have. Physical disabilities are different because while that individual has a potential decreased quality of life, it's perfectly possible for a physically handicapped individual to live a rich, fulfilling existence. But if a person were to be guaranteed to have a debilitating mental handicap that necessitated constant care and a guarantee of no success as a functioning human (Contributes nothing, only takes up space and consumes resources), I can't say I would want to have the kid.

I'd say part of my reluctance to agree with the idea is down to the variability you can have even within conditions.

It's not concrete, but there's growing evidence showing that appropriate intervention in the early stages of autism can make the world of difference in their functional ability in later life. So whilst you can have cases of severe autism, without blaming the parents I'd say that's less to do with the biological aspects of the condition (i.e overly male brain/lack of neural pruning) and more to do with an inappropriate upbringing*.

I'm not as familiar with Downs, but I've seen a little of both ends of it (fully functioning and constant-care), so my gut says you might have something a little similar going on.

So I'd say that as understanding and treatment/intervention improves, it should be a relatively simple matter (I mean it won't but on paper it can sound simple) to help LD individuals integrate into society without becoming that burden.

*It's hardly the fault of the parents if they are absolutely unequipped to deal with an LD child, giving them the proper support and training as early as possible is what's been making the difference in cases like that^

Really the only ones that I can think of that would be more towards 'incurable' are brain damage cases or things like intractable epilepsy. Where a person's quality of life is basically dogshit because they have grand mal seizures every couple of minutes, I could see an argument in favour for cases like that but as far as I know you can't really tell if that'll be the case prior to late-term/birth.

tldr incase i've rambled a lot
Whilst I can understand parents who simply aren't up for caring for an LD child aborting, I think it's a better solution to give them the tools and help to raise a functioning person, particularly as understanding/treatment options improve.