Were Confederates traitors, or patriots?

Turkey · November 06, 2016, 05:38:26 PM

A complex question with good arguments on both sides. Keep in mind that less than 10% of northerners were truly in favor of freeing slaves -- the attempt to ban slavery from the North was largely an attempt to keep blacks out -- and that the Civil War was not fought over the issue. These days, extremists on the right foam at the mouth at the thought of a violent revolution, and it's not unfair to say their parallels on the left don't feel the same over different ethics.

Spoiler

Entire essays can be (and have been) published about this, but I argue that they were free citizens asserting a Constitutional right and defended several important governmental premises -- namely, the enumeration of power among the states and the decentralization of federal influence.

nͫiͤcͫeͤ · November 06, 2016, 05:42:14 PM

the civil war was about states' rights

Turkey · November 06, 2016, 05:43:02 PM

Quote from: ᵗʰᶦˢ ᶦˢ ᶰᶦᶜᵉ ᵇᵒᵃʳᵈ on November 06, 2016, 05:42:14 PM

the civil war was about states' rights

Yes, but that doesn't address the question.

DAS B00T x2 · November 06, 2016, 05:44:28 PM

The Army of Northern Virginia was no different then Washington's own Continental Army.

Alternative Facts · November 06, 2016, 06:13:28 PM

whynotboth.jpg

OT: I wouldn't say that there is a clear cut answer to this question, and there never will be, because it really falls down to your stance. If you support states rights, you're likely to find them to be patriots. On the flip side, those in favor of a strong national government would see them as traitors.

Verbatim · November 06, 2016, 06:36:16 PM

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think part of patriotism is knowing when to be a traitor.

That's not to say that the confederates were right--just that they had an idea and a set of principles.

If you genuinely believe that what you're doing for your country is for the best, I can't say you're not a patriot, even if what you're doing betrays the country's principles. What I can say is that your patriotism is faulty and unfounded, or that you're an evil shithead with backwards morals.

Snowden comes to mind--traitor & patriot. No better singular example.

Luciana · November 06, 2016, 08:23:16 PM

I would say the normal soldiers were patriots. Keep in mind a lot of the message from the politicians in the south was twisted and warped. The normal soldiers more or less thought the North was trying to take them over, change their every day lives, etc. Why WOULDN'T you fight to preserve your generation upon generations of history? Remember that the common soldier was not a slave owner.

So yeah, I think the soldiers were patriots. However do I think the politicians who led the succession were? Absolutely not. They were traitors, and immoral people if you ask me, who made hundreds of thousands of Americans die to try and preserve something that was obvious to the rest of the world, was going away.

That's not to say everyone in the North was a saint though, because racism even till this day, can sometimes be more brutal in the north than the south.

Luciana · November 06, 2016, 08:32:38 PM

Verb says it better

Mordo · November 07, 2016, 03:12:25 AM

Not an American history expert but I'm pretty sure the Confederacy was fighting for more than "muh slavery" seeing as how the average soldier didn't own a solitary slave.

Genghis Khan · November 07, 2016, 04:32:02 AM

Texas should be independent if Hillary becomes the president.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · November 07, 2016, 08:20:11 AM

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DAS B00T x2 · November 07, 2016, 08:33:42 AM

Quote from: Luciana on November 06, 2016, 08:23:16 PM

I would say the normal soldiers were patriots. Keep in mind a lot of the message from the politicians in the south was twisted and warped. The normal soldiers more or less thought the North was trying to take them over, change their every day lives, etc. Why WOULDN'T you fight to preserve your generation upon generations of history? Remember that the common soldier was not a slave owner.

So yeah, I think the soldiers were patriots. However do I think the politicians who led the succession were? Absolutely not. They were traitors, and immoral people if you ask me, who made hundreds of thousands of Americans die to try and preserve something that was obvious to the rest of the world, was going away.

That's not to say everyone in the North was a saint though, because racism even till this day, can sometimes be more brutal in the north than the south.

It's funny, this is almost the spiel I give about the Wehrmacht Heer and late war, Ostfront based SS soldiers.

ban me · November 07, 2016, 10:04:23 AM

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challengerX · November 07, 2016, 10:25:49 AM

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