We might as well start the countdown...

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:31:23 PM

That's why it fails. It shouldn't be Germany running the EU, nor France, nor Greece or any power. However, and actual, and democratic union. Not one built on selfish interests and intrigue. The German people shouldn't pay for the various schemes of their banks, and the Greek people shouldn't pay an impossible debt for the German and French banks who were involved in all this. Greece should pay a reasonable debt, and the Greek people will gladly pay as long they are not an experiment of how to make a EU nation into a puppet state.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:29:20 PM

Germany runs the EU. They're not being backed.

The Euro is a failed experiment. I knew this was gonna happen for a while now.

Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:32:07 PM

Quote from: Isara on April 08, 2015, 05:28:46 PM

Either way it's a bureaucratic mess to go through. It's not as simply going "kthx bye" and everyone walks out of the union. Yet, this kind of conflict in interests could lead to it crashing quite well. (Which it should deserve if it gets any more out of hand)

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:26:33 PM
That is a major flaw with it. Which is that the people really have no voice in what the EU itself does as an organization. But would it really be better to dismantle the entire union because of that?

You probably have more personal experience with the EU's bureaucracy than me, honestly. Have you ever had any experiences with it?

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:32:23 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:33:11 PM

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Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:34:31 PM

Not direct ones, but it's what it appears to be from when I try to find information about specific things in the EU. It's ironic how easier it's to find coherent information about the US government than the Eurogroup, and the Eurozone-- and afterwards you go to all those individual associations that are loosely tied to the EU.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:32:07 PM

You probably have more personal experience with the EU's bureaucracy than me, honestly. Have you ever had any experiences with it?

Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:35:21 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:32:23 PM

Old already going down the shitter now.

Not really. Greece has already bottomed out, and the other Mediterranean countries have also bottomed out or are damn near bottoming out. The worst days of the crisis are over now.

Cutting up the EU would undo all of the recovery that has happened in the Mediterranean countries.

Quote

It's not really 1st world.

I wouldn't have admitted it into the EU.

Which is why Romania, Bulgaria and Poland were admitted into the EU, right?

Quote

I'd be for the EU if there was no Euro and no Eastern European nations in it. But to say not getting rid of the euro is a good idea is plain wrong.

I also think that the EU shouldn't have admitted the majority of Eastern Europe over the course of 3 years. And when the Euro came out, there was no way that anyone could have guessed that this crisis would happen.

And what about those countries who are doing great with the Euro? It seems like what you're suggesting for the most part is either all or nothing in terms of which countries would be affected.

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:35:48 PM

Yeah, we should leave because we're being used as an experimental state. If nations start leaving the EU then it will just mark the political failure that it is. Not only putting into shame all the work up until now, but even more imprinting how it was all about selfish interests, and not the common good.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:33:11 PM

Which is exactly why you guys should leave.

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:37:12 PM

They are not. We are at the center of the typhoon, when it's calm, and it stagnates. At least, for Greece.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:35:21 PM

The worst days of the crisis are over now.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:37:15 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:38:10 PM

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Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:38:52 PM

Quote from: Isara on April 08, 2015, 05:37:12 PM

They are not. We are at the center of the typhoon, when it's calm, and it stagnates. At least, for Greece.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:35:21 PM
The worst days of the crisis are over now.

Hm.

I don't know why my relatives there would say it is then, given the fact that they're very well-informed people.

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:39:25 PM

Yeah, in that case it's what, an union for who thinks they are "worthy" ? Coincidentally all of them who had their asses saved from the Marshall Plan and the US army?

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:37:15 PM

None of those countries should be part of the EU.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:39:45 PM

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Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:40:32 PM

Or maybe try to fix the hole and prevent the sinking altogether. That is better than making a union collapse onto itself.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:38:10 PM

...So? What's with this Eurostate patriotism? Who the fuck cares? Abandon ship and save yourselves.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:41:10 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:41:40 PM

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Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:42:04 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:39:45 PM

"what about the countries doing great with the Euro"

1 EUR = 1.08 USD

Hm.

I don't really know what to say, honestly.

The main reason that I support the EU honestly is because of the EU citizenship that any citizen of a member state is given. And if the EU falls apart like that, I'd be stuck here in a country that I've always hated living in for the rest of my life. Unless Greece really starts to see some serious recovery.

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:43:19 PM

Yeah, and I bet you tear each time you see your nation's flag waving. Please. Quite easy to separate between people when someone's at an advantage, isn't it?

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:41:10 PM

No, it's a union for countries that have strong economies with decent and hard working people.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:43:44 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:44:10 PM

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Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:45:01 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:43:44 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:39:45 PM
"what about the countries doing great with the Euro"

1 EUR = 1.08 USD
Hm.

I don't really know what to say, honestly.

The main reason that I support the EU honestly is because of the EU citizenship that any citizen of a member state is given. And if the EU falls apart like that, I'd be stuck here in a country that I've always hated living in for the rest of my life. Unless Greece really starts to see some serious recovery.
The free movement of peoples would've been fine if it was West Europe and the UK. But otherwise, no.

It also affects other members of my family, since many of them are living in other Western European countries solely on their Greek citizenship...

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:46:09 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:46:54 PM

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Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:47:30 PM

Yeah, then in that case a large chunk of the debt must be cut. Otherwise the country will be doomed anyway.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:46:09 PM

I know it would suck, but Greece should at the least leave the Euro.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:48:27 PM

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Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:49:28 PM

You were spouting propaganda, where you take the assumption that people in Greece aren't hard working. Or that economical strength is something constant in perpetuity.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:46:54 PM

What advantage? "Tear" at what?

Isara · April 08, 2015, 05:50:11 PM

Oh well, then the Eurozone and the Eurogroup can be dragged into hell, that seems quite the solution, especially since it might fuck up all the nation states in some way or another.

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:48:27 PM

I don't think that would happen.

Not Comms Officer · April 08, 2015, 05:50:30 PM

Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:46:09 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:45:01 PM
Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:43:44 PM
Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 08, 2015, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: challengerX on April 08, 2015, 05:39:45 PM
"what about the countries doing great with the Euro"

1 EUR = 1.08 USD
Hm.

I don't really know what to say, honestly.

The main reason that I support the EU honestly is because of the EU citizenship that any citizen of a member state is given. And if the EU falls apart like that, I'd be stuck here in a country that I've always hated living in for the rest of my life. Unless Greece really starts to see some serious recovery.
The free movement of peoples would've been fine if it was West Europe and the UK. But otherwise, no.
It also affects other members of my family, since many of them are living in other Western European countries solely on their Greek citizenship...
I know it would suck, but Greece should at the least leave the Euro.

No, I wouldn't be willing to support jeopardizing mine and my family's future over this. I think that leaving the Eurozone should only be seriously considered once every single other alternative has been exhausted. Because this would cause a lot of repercussions around the rest of Europe in a time when they don't need them. Greece can't just walk out of it all and expect nothing to happen as a result.

challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:51:11 PM

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challengerX · April 08, 2015, 05:53:47 PM

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