The final nail in Keynesianism's coffin

 
More Than Mortal
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 11:22:06 AM by Meta Cognition


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"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him saying, 'You are mad, you are not like us'."
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I wish I wasn't an economic illiterate.
(Fiscal stimulus doesn't fucking work)


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'Bout bloody time.


Kinder Graham | Respected Invincible!
 
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(Fiscal stimulus doesn't fucking work)
Of course it doesn't. The economy has a life cycle of ups and downs, usually happening every 20 years. Tell the government to stop wasting money as the market will bounce back up eventually. People eventually need new cars, appliances, homes, etc which causes a mass spending frenzy and thus employers can employee more people as demand increases. However, people will stop buying because they have what they need which causes employers to lay off and reduce workers hours til eventually people start needing shit again


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Of course it doesn't. The economy has a life cycle of ups and downs, usually happening every 20 years. Tell the government to stop wasting money as the market will bounce back up eventually. People eventually need new cars, appliances, homes, etc which causes a mass spending frenzy and thus employers can employee more people as demand increases. However, people will stop buying because they have what they need which causes employers to lay off and reduce workers hours til eventually people start needing shit again
Literally no model of economics supports what you just said.


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Literally no model of economics supports what you just said.

Uh, Capitalism

The Great Depression ended as a result of WW2 and people being drafted and entering military service, giving people who were previously unemployed or earning low wages an income along with women entering the work force to produce the weapons of war giving families even more income. Rationing caused families to not be able to buy much but when the war ended and rationing was stopped, people could go out and buy shit


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Uh, Capitalism

The Great Depression ended as a result of WW2 and people being drafted and entering military service, giving people who were previously unemployed or earning low wages an income along with women entering the work force to produce the weapons of war giving families even more income. Rationing caused families to not be able to buy much but when the war ended and rationing was stopped, people could go out and buy shit
*cough*keynesianism*cough*

Wars only destroy wealth, they cannot create. The Second World War only sort of "covered up" the Great Depression. If I remember rightly, it actually ended around '47.

Not to mention, the Depression need not have happened if the government followed some simple policies to stop aggregate demand from falling like it did.
Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 02:37:08 PM by Meta Cognition


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>I clicked OP's link

>I downloaded something I can't read

>Can't find it in my folders and delete it

>forever mocks my inability to read Economics properly.

I DID pass Economics in High School though :)



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>humanizing capitalism

when will they realize it's a scam?


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
>humanizing capitalism

when will they realize it's a scam?
The thing that's given 1% of human history 99% of all the wealth ever created is a scam?


Dave | Respected Posting Spree
 
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When that wealth isn't being used for the benefit of the majority of the population? Yes.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
When that wealth isn't being used for the benefit of the majority of the population? Yes.
Wealth goes where people want it to go - that's the point of the market.



Dave | Respected Posting Spree
 
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Wealth goes where people who control wealth want it to go*


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Wealth goes where people who control wealth want it to go*
That's a symptom of political problems, not problems with capitalism.

I don't like Keynes, but even he realised capitalism was necessary for the freedom of a country. You can't generate wealth and plan it from the top-down at the same time, it doesn't work.


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Quote
>humanizing capitalism

when will they realize it's a scam?
I'm not fond f Keynes either, see previous comment^

Quote
You can't generate wealth and plan it from the top-down at the same time, it doesn't work.
China says hi.

So long as wealth is concentrated in the hands of the highest social class, it will always be planned top-down.
Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 12:12:57 PM by Dave


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I'm not fond f Keynes either, see previous comment^
China says hi.

So long as wealth is concentrated in the hands of the highest social class, it will always be planned top-down.
lol

China's only seeing large growth precisely because they moved to a market-based system and away from a planning one.

That being said, despite their really quite astonishing growth, they're going to have to face crippling levels of internal debt.


Dave | Respected Posting Spree
 
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Still one of the leading examples of state capitalism.

Whether power is concentrated in the hands of the state or the hands of the ultra-rich, it makes little difference. They're two sides of the same coin.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Still one of the leading examples of state capitalism.

Whether power is concentrated in the hands of the state or the hands of the ultra-rich, it makes little difference. They're two sides of the same coin.
Well, not really.

The rich only get rich by providing value for people. That's how innovation and competition work. The problem is when the rich are able to use their money to get into political structures.

Regardless, if it makes no difference to you, why're you complaining? According to you, a proper capitalist system is just as bad as a cronyist system, yet they're both evidently better than a central planning or State capitalist system. What alternative do you want to pursue here?


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Capitalism makes it possible for the rich to manipulate politics, it's a system designed to keep them in power.

I don't pretend to have any solutions, but I also don't pretend that the system currently in place is worth defending. Teaching people how badly the game is rigged is a good enough start, I suppose.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Capitalism makes it possible for the rich to manipulate politics, it's a system designed to keep them in power.

I don't pretend to have any solutions, but I also don't pretend that the system currently in place is worth defending. Teaching people how badly the game is rigged is a good enough start, I suppose.
No, the nature of government allows capitalists to manipulate politics.

Oligarchs and plutocrats are symptoms, not the illness.


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He who controls the media controls elections.

Unless you outlaw advertising and privately-owned media outlets, that's not going to change any time soon.

Hell, even publicly owned news networks are partially dependent on advertising money, just look at the CBC.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
He who controls the media controls elections.

Unless you outlaw advertising and privately-owned media outlets, that's not going to change any time soon.

Hell, even publicly owned news networks are partially dependent on advertising money, just look at the CBC.
I didn't say otherwise.

The point is to structure government in such a way as to remove the incentive for trying to determine the outcome of an election.


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Power will always be a good enough incentive.

Even if it were possible you can't rely on the benevolence of the ruling class, it's a group that tends to attract dysfunctional personalities.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
If you guys just give me all your money I'll let it trickle down.
At least supply-side works.


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(For some people).