Quote from: Saint Nick McIntyre on December 16, 2014, 11:53:36 AMThanks to overzealous and smart religious leaders that bend the QuaranThe thing is, though, they don't do that.
Thanks to overzealous and smart religious leaders that bend the Quaran
You certainly make it out to seem that way, based on your experience with "British Muslims"
How not? I'll admit to not having completely read the Quaran (I have much better things to do with my life) but I do know that, like the Bible, there are passages for peace (especially towards Christians and Jews) and others calling for violence.
There are a number of peaceful Muslims,
QuoteThere are a number of peaceful Muslims, Not enough.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 12:01:49 PMQuoteThere are a number of peaceful Muslims, Not enough.There are an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. How many of those do you honestly believe are terroristic/extremists?
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:19:10 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing. But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.Exactly. They do it because they are crazy and believe they need to take their beliefs to the furthest most point. You have seen it in every religion throughout history - only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day. Not diminishing the tragedy, but to solely blame a belief without examining the psyche of the perpetuator is just as bad.LOLTell me, when was the last time you heard of Catholics blowing up a school in South America because of their belief in god and the fact that they're Catholics?Yes, a lot of them are deranged. But Islam is the reason they do the things they do. Why does the Taliban exist? Because they want to control the country and force a very strict understanding of the Quran. So, whether or not the higher ups in the organization believe in all this bullshit is irrelevant, because the foot soldiers do believe this shit. They do think they're going to paradise when they blow themselves up.This shit is prevalent in the Middle East and in Africa because of Islam. Almost nowhere else do we have people killing each other over religion. Nope. Any country in South America? Nope. Mexico? Nope. All 3rd world places with poverty and high levels of violence, but rarely is it over religion.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing. But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.Exactly. They do it because they are crazy and believe they need to take their beliefs to the furthest most point. You have seen it in every religion throughout history - only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day. Not diminishing the tragedy, but to solely blame a belief without examining the psyche of the perpetuator is just as bad.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing. But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money.
inb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.
What's going on in the middle east is the same sort of shit that went on with Christianity a few hundred years ago.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 16, 2014, 12:40:25 PMWhat's going on in the middle east is the same sort of shit that went on with Christianity a few hundred years ago.Nobody's denying that. The point is we don't need to worry about it because Martin Luther kicked all of that shit off in 1517. The stuff with Islam is happening today.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on December 16, 2014, 12:40:25 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 11:32:09 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:19:10 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing. But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.Exactly. They do it because they are crazy and believe they need to take their beliefs to the furthest most point. You have seen it in every religion throughout history - only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day. Not diminishing the tragedy, but to solely blame a belief without examining the psyche of the perpetuator is just as bad.LOLTell me, when was the last time you heard of Catholics blowing up a school in South America because of their belief in god and the fact that they're Catholics?Yes, a lot of them are deranged. But Islam is the reason they do the things they do. Why does the Taliban exist? Because they want to control the country and force a very strict understanding of the Quran. So, whether or not the higher ups in the organization believe in all this bullshit is irrelevant, because the foot soldiers do believe this shit. They do think they're going to paradise when they blow themselves up.This shit is prevalent in the Middle East and in Africa because of Islam. Almost nowhere else do we have people killing each other over religion. Nope. Any country in South America? Nope. Mexico? Nope. All 3rd world places with poverty and high levels of violence, but rarely is it over religion.Not in South America, but have you ever taken a look at the troubles in ireland?Catholics and Protestants were, and some still are, killing each other in the street over their beliefs. Add the whole independence/unionist stances to the mix and boom.Go back a couple of hundred years to this not very well known warhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War8 million casualties because the Catholics wanted to wipe out the Protestants.What's going on in the middle east is the same sort of shit that went on with Christianity a few hundred years ago.That's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 11:32:09 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:19:10 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AMinb4 people blame Is-Oh, I see Meta is already here.What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money. In Islam? Possibly. Here? SureMom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance MoneyMom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video gameCrazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing. But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.Exactly. They do it because they are crazy and believe they need to take their beliefs to the furthest most point. You have seen it in every religion throughout history - only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day. Not diminishing the tragedy, but to solely blame a belief without examining the psyche of the perpetuator is just as bad.LOLTell me, when was the last time you heard of Catholics blowing up a school in South America because of their belief in god and the fact that they're Catholics?Yes, a lot of them are deranged. But Islam is the reason they do the things they do. Why does the Taliban exist? Because they want to control the country and force a very strict understanding of the Quran. So, whether or not the higher ups in the organization believe in all this bullshit is irrelevant, because the foot soldiers do believe this shit. They do think they're going to paradise when they blow themselves up.This shit is prevalent in the Middle East and in Africa because of Islam. Almost nowhere else do we have people killing each other over religion. Nope. Any country in South America? Nope. Mexico? Nope. All 3rd world places with poverty and high levels of violence, but rarely is it over religion.Not in South America, but have you ever taken a look at the troubles in ireland?Catholics and Protestants were, and some still are, killing each other in the street over their beliefs. Add the whole independence/unionist stances to the mix and boom.Go back a couple of hundred years to this not very well known warhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War8 million casualties because the Catholics wanted to wipe out the Protestants.What's going on in the middle east is the same sort of shit that went on with Christianity a few hundred years ago.
That's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:13:40 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.Again, none of it is because of religion.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.
Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:18:47 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:18:13 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:13:40 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.Again, none of it is because of religion.And what part of QuoteEverything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.didn't translate that you cannot solely blame religion?Religion is one of the leading causes for all the trouble in the Middle East. Fact.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:18:13 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:13:40 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.Again, none of it is because of religion.And what part of QuoteEverything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.didn't translate that you cannot solely blame religion?
Religion is one of the leading causes
And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:26:21 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:24:56 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:18:47 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:18:13 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:13:40 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.Again, none of it is because of religion.And what part of QuoteEverything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.didn't translate that you cannot solely blame religion?Religion is one of the leading causes for all the trouble in the Middle East. Fact.QuoteReligion is one of the leading causesI know... I just said that.
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:24:56 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:18:47 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:18:13 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 02:13:40 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 02:10:59 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 01:56:16 PMQuote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 12:53:42 PMThat's the thing though, this shit is going on in 2014. It's embarrassing to the human race.And? Less developed regions of the world are going to be slower at hitting this reformations/revolutions/whatever you want to call them than areas like Europe/America/etc.Everything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.Yet Islamic nations are some of the only nations with this problem.Not quite. It's the most noticeable because it's spread over such a vast region - from Morocco to Pakistan, but plenty of other nations are having their own problems. Sri Lanka, recently, had it's civil war over ethnic problems and is still facing tensions. There's still plenty of ethnic problems in sub-Saharan Africa, along with political corruption, strife, and borderline genocide in places. Latin America is also facing problems, again - not religious.There are dozens of countries facing problems with extremists - they just aren't all Islamic. Hell, even Eastern Europe is still having growing pains following the Soviet Union dismantling twenty years ago.Less developed countries, countries that have been marginalized, ignored, or used negatively - they ARE going to be slower at having these changes. Of course, that doesn't show why Euro Muslims are so odd, but it helps display the constant problems in countries like Pakistan.Again, none of it is because of religion.And what part of QuoteEverything ties together. Wealth and prosperity of a nation, religious beliefs, political strife, social conditions, historical problems.didn't translate that you cannot solely blame religion?Religion is one of the leading causes for all the trouble in the Middle East. Fact.QuoteReligion is one of the leading causes
Likewise, blaming Islam for the Taliban is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 03:23:38 PMLikewise, blaming Islam for the Taliban is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. Except the Taliban quite explicitly identifies as Muslim. In the same way ISIS identifies as a caliphate-founding organisation - hence the name.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 03:28:42 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 03:23:38 PMLikewise, blaming Islam for the Taliban is like blaming Catholicism for the IRA. Except the Taliban quite explicitly identifies as Muslim. In the same way ISIS identifies as a caliphate-founding organisation - hence the name. Yet the Taliban does plenty of shit that Islam prohibits: drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.You're welcome to call it a "glorified mafia ring" if that'll make you feel better, but they are just as pick and choosy with what they want to follow as Catholic extremists are.
Taliban murder over 80 children at school, 126 people killed total.
