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Taliban murder over 80 children at school, 126 people killed total.

 
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Moms spaghetti
Horrible, those kids are going to be afraid to go to school now.

 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Yeah, Islam isn't a threat to anybody.

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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 07:12:10 AM
Yeah, Islam isn't a threat to anybody.
"B-b-but what about the peaceful muslims!"

 
 
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inb4 people blame Is-

Oh, I see Meta is already here.

 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
Oh, I see Meta is already here.
I feel like I should point out I don't blame Islam totally.

The problem is dogmatism of any sort - be it nationalistic, religious, whatever. Islam just happens to be very effective at facilitating violence and medieval values.

 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
inb4 people blame Is-

Oh, I see Meta is already here.
What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money.

They killed these kids because the majority of them were sons of soldiers. It was completely motivate by their beliefs and politics.
To be fair, poor people try to kill kids over dumber shit

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19610278/detroit-teen-shot-because-someone-allegedly-wanted-his-air-jordan-sneakers

 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
inb4 people blame Is-

Oh, I see Meta is already here.
What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money.

In Islam? Possibly. Here? Sure

Mom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance Money

Mom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"

Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video game

Crazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.

 
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>people still surprised at this shit

 
 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
inb4 people blame Is-

Oh, I see Meta is already here.
What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money.

In Islam? Possibly. Here? Sure

Mom in North Carolina Kills 2 Sons for Insurance Money

Mom shoots Child in Stroller, had a "financial interest in his death"

Meanwhile, a Dad kills his son to play a video game

Crazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.
I meant a massacre. Of course people kill each other and kids over nothing.

But nobody has killed a group of children over poverty. They do it because they're deranged or over their beliefs.

Exactly. They do it because they are crazy and believe they need to take their beliefs to the furthest most point.

You have seen it in every religion throughout history - only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day. Not diminishing the tragedy, but to solely blame a belief without examining the psyche of the perpetuator is just as bad.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:34:40 AM
Crazy people are going to do crazy shit - no matter their religion, political beliefs, etc.
How convenient it should be, then, that religion is supremely effective at organising such crazy people.

 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day.
No.

It's because it's prevalent.

 
 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:19:10 AM
only reason it seems SO more prevalent now is because we have a 24 hour news media to report on this shit at any hour of the day.
No.

It's because it's prevalent.

I disagree.


 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
I disagree.
Then you're wrong.

You simply can't believe that Islamism isn't prevalent when 68pc of British Muslims quite seriously oppose freedom of speech. That perspective and that fact can't coalesce in any way.

 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
I disagree.
Then you're wrong.

You simply can't believe that Islamism isn't prevalent when 68pc of British Muslims quite seriously oppose freedom of speech. That perspective and that fact can't coalesce in any way.

> British Muslims.

A majority of Christian denominations (If I recall correctly, namely Protestants, Baptists, Mormons, etc.) oppose any sort of same-sex unions, same-sex adoptions, etc.

Therefore, most Christians around the world must also do so, based on my personal experience with a set of religious folk in my country alone.


 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:28:48 AM
> British Muslims.
The point being that you don't need poverty to galvanise radicalism.

But I can throw up a few more statistics if you like.

72pc of Indonesians support making Islamic law the official law of their country. I think around 2009 that was actually surveyed at a much lower 50pc.
56pc of Egyptian muslims advocate killing apostates.
About 80pc of Egyptians want strict Sharia law in every Islamic country.
76pc of Pakistanis also support that view, and 78pc believe it acceptable to kill apostates.
About a quarter of Bangladeshis believe suicide bombings are justified.
51pc of Palestinians supported Bin Laden, as do 54pc of muslim Nigerians.
29pc of muslims Turks believe stoning women for adultery is acceptable.
35pc of French muslims believe suicide bombings are justified. As do 24pc in Britain and 13pc in Germany. Interestingly, young muslims are more likely to support these measures.
5pc of British muslims wouldn't report a planned terror attack to the authorities.
51pc of mosques in the U.S. have texts on-site categorised as advocating extreme violence.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
268.pdf
http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/sharia-adherence-mosque-survey/html

 
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Meta, I'll analyze your stuff after lunch.

 
 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:52:53 AM
Meta, I'll analyze your stuff after lunch.
I'd have linked each claim with the appropriate source, but some of the sources support more than one claim, and I'm too fuckin' lazy.

So have fun.

 
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Ember used to be cool and funny

Now he's just gay
they should just merge afghanistan and pakistan into one country

called talibanistan

 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
I disagree.
Then you're wrong.

You simply can't believe that Islamism isn't prevalent when 68pc of British Muslims quite seriously oppose freedom of speech. That perspective and that fact can't coalesce in any way.

> British Muslims.
Your point? They're Muslims living in a 1st world country. They don't live in the poverty people in the Middle East or Africa do, yet they're radical.

It's hilarious to me that a homosexual man is sitting here debating me on how the majority of Muslims are good. Most every single one thinks you're a disgusting excuse of a human being simply because you're homosexual. You know that right? They don't even consider you human. I'm not saying you should think the same of them, I'm just saying you might want to rethink your stance on apologizing for people who would kill you in the street.

Plenty of Christians think that as well, with some pastors also saying I should be killed.

Doesn't mean I'm going to condemn every last Christian and say it needs to be wiped out. And I'm not going to simply stand by and let bullheaded comments regarding that same idea for Islam and Muslims go through.
Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 11:51:29 AM by IcyWind

 
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Quote from: challengerX on December 16, 2014, 08:23:36 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
inb4 people blame Is-

Oh, I see Meta is already here.
What the fuck are we supposed to blame? Poverty? No criminal has ever murdered children for money.

They killed these kids because the majority of them were sons of soldiers. It was completely motivate by their beliefs and politics.

Thanks to overzealous and smart religious leaders that bend the Quaran to suit their own beliefs and directing these beliefs at the huddled masses, same with every religion.

It will never happen in our lifetimes, but I can't wait for religion (or at the very least the extremist side) to be just completely eradicated.

 
 
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Also, I'm going to post a reminder from the entire staff to keep the debate civil and remember that there are new rules in place for Serious, including new, harsher penalties.

I'll be gone for a good chunk of the afternoon, but I'm sure some of the others won't mind stepping in if needed.

 
 
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Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 11:50:32 AM
Plenty of Christians think that as well, with some pastors also saying I should be killed.

Doesn't mean I'm going to condemn every last Christian and say it needs to be wiped out. And I'm not going to simply stand by and let bullheaded comments regarding that same idea for Islam and Muslims go through.
Nobody here is condemning every last Muslim. Nor do a majority of Christians believe in the things a majority of Muslims do in various countries. You can't just blanket all religions in your admirable tolerance, when they're quite clearly qualitatively distinct.

The Pentateuch has some pretty reprehensible teachings, and yet Jews aren't barbarous, illiberal and dangerous in most instances so there's obviously some sort of disconnect going on there. The disconnect, however, is nowhere near as substantial in Islam.

 
 
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Quote from: Saint Nick McIntyre on December 16, 2014, 11:53:36 AM
Thanks to overzealous and smart religious leaders that bend the Quaran
The thing is, though, they don't do that.

 
 
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Quote from: Meta Cognition on December 16, 2014, 11:55:30 AM
Quote from: IcyWind on December 16, 2014, 11:50:32 AM
Plenty of Christians think that as well, with some pastors also saying I should be killed.

Doesn't mean I'm going to condemn every last Christian and say it needs to be wiped out. And I'm not going to simply stand by and let bullheaded comments regarding that same idea for Islam and Muslims go through.
Nobody here is condemning every last Muslim.

You certainly make it out to seem that way, based on your experience with "British Muslims"




 
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