Then why wouldn't we just make them part of our country so it WOULD be legal? Or acknowledge that the idea of countries in the first place is just silly.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:27:19 PMQuote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:23:03 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:22:30 PMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_TreatyThese things exist for a reason <.<For tyrants to bully the world, ya. Doesn't make it justified or legal.Whether you agree with defence treaties or not, they aren't illegal and are important for keeping the smaller countries safer from the bigger ones.They contribute to stability in the same way that MAD does, although in different manners <.<Country X doesn't invade country Y because then country Z will rip it's head off and shit down it's throat if it does.Then why wouldn't we just make them part of our country so it WOULD be legal? Or acknowledge that the idea of countries in the first place is just silly.
Quote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:23:03 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:22:30 PMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_TreatyThese things exist for a reason <.<For tyrants to bully the world, ya. Doesn't make it justified or legal.Whether you agree with defence treaties or not, they aren't illegal and are important for keeping the smaller countries safer from the bigger ones.They contribute to stability in the same way that MAD does, although in different manners <.<Country X doesn't invade country Y because then country Z will rip it's head off and shit down it's throat if it does.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:22:30 PMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_TreatyThese things exist for a reason <.<For tyrants to bully the world, ya. Doesn't make it justified or legal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_TreatyThese things exist for a reason <.<
Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 03, 2014, 02:29:44 PMQuote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:28:45 PMThen why wouldn't we just make them part of our country so it WOULD be legal? Or acknowledge that the idea of countries in the first place is just silly.Because people tend to prefer practical, pragmatic and, y'know, doable policies.Policing the entire world isn't doable, especially when we're often the bad guys. Countries should only be worried about their own defenses.
Quote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:28:45 PMThen why wouldn't we just make them part of our country so it WOULD be legal? Or acknowledge that the idea of countries in the first place is just silly.Because people tend to prefer practical, pragmatic and, y'know, doable policies.
Policing the entire world isn't doable, especially when we're often the bad guys. Countries should only be worried about their own defenses.
Many unjust wars have happened under the guise of those actions.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:34:01 PMSo how can a small country like Belgium stand up to Nazi Germany? It can't, it gets crushed and turned into lebensraum if other more powerful nations don't step into the fight.As sad as it is, tyrants exist, and it's not our business or duty until they are a threat to us. When we pick sides things just get nastier.
So how can a small country like Belgium stand up to Nazi Germany? It can't, it gets crushed and turned into lebensraum if other more powerful nations don't step into the fight.
I'm not advocating world policing.I'm saying true world security requires collective action when A) the country harbours international criminals like terrorists, B) it threatens another nations sovereignty C) it is committing or will commit a genocide.Those three requirements increase in importance.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 03, 2014, 02:40:02 PMQuote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:39:14 PMMany unjust wars have happened under the guise of those actions. Give me one unjust war which has been carried out after the fulfillment of criterion C.What is that?
Quote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 02:39:14 PMMany unjust wars have happened under the guise of those actions. Give me one unjust war which has been carried out after the fulfillment of criterion C.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:42:12 PMThere are times when the world has to act, atrocities cannot be allowed to occur because they don't concern your nation directly.Like the Rwandan Genocide.We could have prevented a lot of genocides. Sometimes our inaction where it would be lawful would have prevented them. Though, there's so much doubt in my mind. History is written by those that won. Even our first World War is in question, we may have falsely began it similar to Vietnam. However, after World War I it is partially our fault Germany came to power again.
There are times when the world has to act, atrocities cannot be allowed to occur because they don't concern your nation directly.Like the Rwandan Genocide.
Quote from: Meta Cognition on November 03, 2014, 02:51:28 PMStopping a genocide.My point was governments often lie or make things up to go to war in the first place.
Stopping a genocide.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 02:57:30 PMThe only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.If you stand by and let genocide occur, you are just as bad as the men with guns. It is the moral duty of every human being to prevent genocide and mass murder. To stand idly by and allow a murder to happen that you could prevent is to be just as culpable as pulling the trigger yourself, in my eyes. You are free to disagree of course, but this ties in to a previous discussion about the preciousness of life.If someone is trying to jump off a bridge, and you stand by and let them or yell 'Do a flip faggot' you are a shitty person. If you turn a blind eye to a cry of help, you are a shitty person. Like I said, it's a moral duty to help others and it transcends any notions of race or country.Sometimes we need to be realistic. There is NOTHING any country can do to stop the genocides in Africa. We performed a genocide ourselves forming this country. Sometimes you need to let a nation develop and revolt, just as we did. The people need to be ready before they can be helped. Just like how rehab is mostly pointless. We have to live within our own means. I'd argue the strongest thing we could do to help is by setting an example.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.If you stand by and let genocide occur, you are just as bad as the men with guns. It is the moral duty of every human being to prevent genocide and mass murder. To stand idly by and allow a murder to happen that you could prevent is to be just as culpable as pulling the trigger yourself, in my eyes. You are free to disagree of course, but this ties in to a previous discussion about the preciousness of life.If someone is trying to jump off a bridge, and you stand by and let them or yell 'Do a flip faggot' you are a shitty person. If you turn a blind eye to a cry of help, you are a shitty person. Like I said, it's a moral duty to help others and it transcends any notions of race or country.
If we lost in Iraq, we would have lost our freedom.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 03:13:07 PMI don't even know where to start with this one.We have stopped genocides, we CAN stop them and we damn well should.Genocide has been happening in Africa for at least 15,000 years. I'm not sure what you could do to stop it other than one ultimate genocide that reduces the population to near-nothingness.
I don't even know where to start with this one.We have stopped genocides, we CAN stop them and we damn well should.
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 06:25:08 PMQuote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 05:56:10 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 03:13:07 PMI don't even know where to start with this one.We have stopped genocides, we CAN stop them and we damn well should.Genocide has been happening in Africa for at least 15,000 years. I'm not sure what you could do to stop it other than one ultimate genocide that reduces the population to near-nothingness.So we should prevent genocide with genocide?Am I missing the point or is there a gaping big hole in your logic there?What other way is there?
Quote from: Camnator on November 03, 2014, 05:56:10 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 03:13:07 PMI don't even know where to start with this one.We have stopped genocides, we CAN stop them and we damn well should.Genocide has been happening in Africa for at least 15,000 years. I'm not sure what you could do to stop it other than one ultimate genocide that reduces the population to near-nothingness.So we should prevent genocide with genocide?Am I missing the point or is there a gaping big hole in your logic there?
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on November 03, 2014, 06:30:35 PM*sigh*Alright, I'm done. I don't often just ditch a discussion but if you seriously think that Genocide is the answer to Genocide, I'm done.You didn't offer any other suggestions on how to fix Africa.
*sigh*Alright, I'm done. I don't often just ditch a discussion but if you seriously think that Genocide is the answer to Genocide, I'm done.
Soliders in Iraq were fighting for out freedom
