Try reading through just this thread alone and you'll see I'm right.

You can't make a sweeping statement and then say "look at this one isolated example--this proves my generalization!"

Nice utopia.

It would still be machines under humans, and that's a violation of privacy.

Thanks. I think it is a nice utopia.

It couldn't be abused. Fuck privacy.

]I take issue with it. I don't other people monitoring me, what makes you think I want a robot monitoring me?

No thanks.

Then you're irrational and paranoid. A scared little kid.

There's nothing wrong at all with thinking surveillance is good; after all, it just shows you have high political efficacy. However, that doesn't mean that the opposite opinion isn't also acceptable. It's about disagreeing with the perspective, but at the same time acknowledging that someone else may fundamentally have different views of the subject.

I just don't get it, though. You take human corruption out of the equation, and people are still gonna be against it. For no other reason than, "It makes me uncomfortable."

Why does it make people uncomfortable? If they could just admit that they're paranoid, and therefore irrational, then that would be okay. But they don't.

At the end of the day, my perspective is based on logic; they're perspective is based on emotion.
Emotion has no place.

Here's a thought Verb, would you be comfortable giving me the passwords to your Sep7 and email accounts? After all, if you have no problem abdicating your privacy to the state, then you should have no problem abdicating your privacy to me.

You have nothing to hide, after all, right?

I'd have no problem with that at all, no. I'd need a good reason, though.

Quote from: Prime Megaten on October 15, 2015, 08:17:41 AM

There's nothing wrong at all with thinking surveillance is good; after all, it just shows you have high political efficacy. However, that doesn't mean that the opposite opinion isn't also acceptable. It's about disagreeing with the perspective, but at the same time acknowledging that someone else may fundamentally have different views of the subject.

I just don't get it, though. You take human corruption out of the equation, and people are still gonna be against it. For no other reason than, "It makes me uncomfortable."

Why does it make people uncomfortable? If they could just admit that they're paranoid, and therefore irrational, then that would be okay. But they don't.

Even if you take human corruption out of the equation, there's still the issue that people just like to be alone sometimes. Dramatis personae is exhausting, and being away from eyes is how someone like me "recharges". Having a camera in my house, for example, would end up with me either avoiding that area of the room when I could (like Winston and his apartment) or being really frustrated. I, as an example, can't unwind in front of other people. That's just how I am, and I doubt that I'm the only one who feels that way.

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 15, 2015, 08:26:49 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 15, 2015, 08:25:20 AM

Quote from: Ronnie Pickering on October 15, 2015, 08:24:32 AM

Here's a thought Verb, would you be comfortable giving me the passwords to your Sep7 and email accounts? After all, if you have no problem abdicating your privacy to the state, then you should have no problem abdicating your privacy to me.

You have nothing to hide, after all, right?

I'd have no problem with that at all, no. I'd need a good reason, though.

I want to see if you really do believe any of this anti natalist crap.

PM me your details when your ready.

Actually, no, I'd be against that--because you could read the PMs that I've received.

That crosses a line, because now you're invading other people's privacy, as well.

So... on second thought, no, I'd be against that.
But only because it imposes on other people who might not agree with me.

So I guess privacy is important then.

Even if you take human corruption out of the equation, there's still the issue that people just like to be alone sometimes.

...You would be alone, though, for all intents and purposes.

Sorry--I don't consider this a rational perspective. That sounds like an emotional perspective to me.

Dramatis personae is exhausting, and being away from eyes is how someone like me "recharges". Having a camera in my house, for example, would end up with me either avoiding that area of the room when I could (like Winston and his apartment) or being really frustrated. I, as an example, can't unwind in front of other people. That's just how I am, and I doubt that I'm the only one who feels that way.

Well, you wouldn't be able to escape at all, in my ideal. Like, cameras would follow you literally 24/7, and there would be literally nothing to worry about. It would be as though you're not being watched at all. The only reason you'd have to worry is if you were doing something illegal. Don't do illegal shit--no worries.

I just don't get that mindset, at all.

I appreciate alone time too, Aria. But I admit that having a camera around with a robot watching me wouldn't take that away. In fact, I'd feel even more at ease.

Quote from: Verbatim on October 15, 2015, 08:28:13 AM

So... on second thought, no, I'd be against that.
But only because it imposes on other people who might not agree with me.

Would you concede that a consent-based private surveillance system (where public surveillance is a guarantee, but you'd have to consent to it being installed on your property) would be the best option? Assuming surveillance will happen in some form regardless.

Sure. Public surveillance--fuck yes. Home surveillance? Yeah, sure, that should be up to the house owner.

I'm not sure why I didn't think of that in the first place.

Quote from: Verbatim on October 15, 2015, 08:33:12 AM

I just don't get that mindset, at all.

I understand where your perspective comes from on this. You are open about everything, you don't keep (your own) secrets. But the reality is that most people aren't like you in that regard. People like to have their secrets, whether they are illegal or not. Using a persona is draining; not having the option to be actually be alone is just the opposite of contentment for me.

Which is why I wouldn't oppose the system so long as I could opt-out, or have choice in where the cameras were located. I don't care about a camera on my doorstep, or the garage, or whatever-- but I wouldn't want one in my living room or bedroom.

Fair enough.

see that?

that's how you have a discussion, challenger

LOL

I'm just here to post sep7 memes

Literally no one would opt for that with the exception of yourself.

Literally no one would opt for that with the exception of yourself.

le evun baseless postulation meme

it doesn't matter who would opt for it--that's not the question

but after reading the premise, I have to wonder what makes people think I'll like it more than 1984.

Mate it's all about decadence and the loss of intellectual appreciation; should speak right to your hatred of hedonism. Plus the State is a lot less cartoonishly evil in BNW.

Quote from: Verbatim on October 14, 2015, 08:40:47 PM

but after reading the premise, I have to wonder what makes people think I'll like it more than 1984.

Mate it's all about decadence and the loss of intellectual appreciation; should speak right to your hatred of hedonism. Plus the State is a lot less cartoonishly evil in BNW.

Cool. I ordered it last night.

In the meantime, I'll reread 1984--I think it's important to read books you disliked multiple times. At least twice.

Quote from: Verbatim on October 15, 2015, 08:50:49 AM

see that?

that's how you have a discussion, challenger

>insults me
>has a circle jerk conversation with someone who constantly praises and coddles him to try and make him understand and he still disagrees

LMAO
M
A
O

What? I quite obviously disagree with him on privacy, and if you think I constantly praise him, that's founded in ignorance. I argue with Verb all the fucking time.

Where do you think that "old married couple" nonsense comes from?