Should police be allowed to kill you if you don't follow directions?

Chaos Metal Dragon | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Perhaps American police need to be trained to deescalate situations instead of thinking they are staring in some western shootout movie 24/7.


 
 
Flee
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Maybe some legal experts need to chime in here, but where are the laws saying I need to do what police say, even on my own property, and if I don't I can be justifiably shot?
Not to my knowledge. Police don't have any more of a right to shoot someone than you do. They do have a more explicit mandate to use force when necessary to accomplish their tasks (fighting crime and providing general security), but that is limited to what's reasonable and non-excessive. They can only shoot someone when necessary to protect themselves or others from a reasonable threat and when no other means were adequate in the situation. There's a lot more (and arguably too much) leniency when judging this than there is with your average citizen because being a police officer is already a dangerous job to begin with, but you cannot be justifiably shot for not complying without there being a real danger to the officer or others.

It's why these mishaps should be looked at on a case by case basis. On the one hand, the guy ultimately didn't have a gun, committed no crime and probably only dropped his hands by accident, because he couldn't hear what was said or because he was just overwhelmed with what was going on. In retrospect, there was no reason to shoot. On the other hand, the police was called there to respond to the shooting of a man and a hostage scenario where others were likely to be killed and the entire house set on fire. The US is a country with very high rates of gun violence and firearm ownership, so its officers are trained accordingly to expect or be prepared for a potential gun in every situation. When you're under the impression you're dealing with a murdering lunatic in the process of murdering his entire family, a man suddenly lowering his arms to his waist can easily come across as someone reaching for a weapon.

The police were clearly in the wrong, but it's not always that easy to judge. This is for a very large part caused by the American gun culture that necessitates law enforcement to be trained in an almost combative way because every situation can potentially and very easily turn deadly due to the likelihood of a gun being involved. Almost 150 police officers were killed in the US in 2016. That's nearly 3 per week. Thousands more were assaulted with firearms the same year. And that makes it a lot more understandable why a nervous cop is a bit too quick to pull the trigger.


 
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Perhaps American police need to be trained to deescalate situations instead of thinking they are staring in some western shootout movie 24/7.
They are in a western shootout movie 24/7 in major cities. Criminals are heavily armed with automatic weapons and it's not as bad as it used to be 20 or even 10 years ago but people still bust on the police a lot.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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It wouldn't be as big of an issue if America didn't have such a faggy gun culture.

It's easy to hand-wave American police off as trigger happy retards but if you live in a country where firearms are literally worshipped and the prospect of getting shot by a random citizen is so astronomically high, then it doesn't take a genius to understand why they're always on edge.

Not giving unjustifiable shootings a free pass, but it isn't as black and white as "cops should be taught to stop shooting people."


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Winy | Legendary Invincible!
 
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If someone had a firearm and was commanded to "Drop the weapon," but refused to, then obviously it's a bit more understandable why lethal force could be used as opposed to someone refusing to gesture themselves in some way (Like raising or lowering your hands) when there's no immediate threat that's recognizable. Clearly it's not permissible for an officer to say "Please step out of the vehicle," me saying "No," and then getting filled with lead, no matter how many times I refuse to. But it's all dependent on the context. Sometimes orders are much more pressing and necessary.


 
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Quote
“If you make a mistake, another mistake, there is a very severe possibility that you’re both going to get shot. Do you understand?” Sgt. Charles Langley yells before telling Shaver to “shut up.”

“I’m not here to be tactical and diplomatic with you. You listen. You obey,” the officer says.
"Every day our good officers selflessly put their lives on the line to serve the citizens they represent. If you don't respect them, then you're entitled and ungrateful..."


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I'm sorry.
My police sleeps in another town, so....


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I don't think the police should have anywhere near the authority society gives them, the ability to take lives with little to no repercussions. Not to mention the fascistic undertones of the system.

But the shooting of Daniel Shaver made some of my acquaintances preaching the "ACAB" ideology seem like the sane ones for once, better than ignoring the issues and pretending everything is okay at the very least.