Sanders' tax plan to cost taxpayers $15.3T over 10 years, raises top rate by 34%

Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
more |
XBL: Viva Redemption
PSN: HurtfulTurkey
Steam: HurtfulTurkey
ID: HurtfulTurkey
IP: Logged

8,120 posts
 
http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000639-an-analysis-of-senator-bernie-sanderss-tax-proposals.pdf
Quote
The Tax Policy Center (TPC) estimates that the Sanders tax proposals would increase federal revenue by $15.3 trillion over their first decade (6.4 percent of cumulative gross domestic product [GDP] over that period) and by an additional $25.1 trillion over the subsequent 10 years (7.0 percent of cumulative GDP), before accounting for any changes in the cost of federal borrowing or macroeconomic feedback effects.1 Approximately two-fifths of the estimated revenue increase would come from a new employer payroll tax on all earnings and an across-the-board increase in income taxes, which would pay for a new, government-administered, health insurance program. Net increases in individual income, payroll, and estate taxes paid by high-income and high-wealth taxpayers would account for another quarter of the increase, as would the elimination of tax breaks for health care– related expenditures. Higher taxes paid by businesses, a new tax on financial transactions, and a new tax on carbon would   account for the remainder. The proposal would raise taxes at every income level, but high- income taxpayers would face the biggest increases, both in dollar amount and as a percentage of income. Overall, the plan would raise tax burdens by an average of nearly $9,000, thereby lowering average after-tax income by 12.4 percent. However, the highest-income taxpayers (the top 0.1 percent, or those with income over $3.7 million in 2015 dollars) would experience an average increase in tax burdens of more than $3 million in 2017, nearly 45 percent of their $6.9 million average after-tax income. Households in the middle quintile of the income distribution would see an average tax increase of almost $4,700, or 8.5 percent of their average after-tax income. Those in the bottom quintile would experience smaller tax increases, averaging $165, or 1.3 percent of their average after-tax income.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanderss-plan-would-raise-taxes-by-34-1457114401?mod=e2fb
Quote
Mr. Sanders’s proposals would increase federal taxes by $15.3 trillion over the next decade, according to the Tax Policy Center. Mr. Sanders concentrates his tax increases on high-income households, which would face sharply higher levies on their wages, business income, capital gains and estates, as well as more limits on their deductions. The top 0.1%—those with incomes of $3.7 million under an expanded definition—would pay an average federal tax rate of 63.7% in 2017, up from 34.2%.

The middle 20% of households would face an average tax increase of $4,692 in 2017 and lose 8.5% of after-tax income. The lowest-income households would lose, too, but they would come out even by 2025.

“Sanders is clearly betting that people are willing to pay for his expansive new welfare state,” said Leonard Burman, director of the Tax Policy Center, who was a Treasury Department official under President Bill Clinton. “There’s a giant tax increase, mostly on the rich, but everyone would pay more.”


Tsirist | Ascended Posting Riot
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Tsirist
IP: Logged

503 posts
 
Paying for health insurance is considered by most people to be a necessity anyways. The only difference between that and paying for a health care system like this is who you pay and what you call it.


 
Verbatim
| Komm, süßer Tod
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: Verbatim-1
Steam: Jaco230
ID: Verbatim
IP: Logged

48,284 posts
Neat.

This sort of thing is probably gonna slay him, though.


Mad Max | Mythic Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: madmax0808
ID: Mad Max
IP: Logged

7,553 posts
 
I'm ok with investing $1.5t a year into the well-being of our people.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
more |
XBL: Viva Redemption
PSN: HurtfulTurkey
Steam: HurtfulTurkey
ID: HurtfulTurkey
IP: Logged

8,120 posts
 
I'm ok with investing $1.5t a year into the well-being of our people.

That's incredibly easy to say when your cost would be little more than what you already pay for healthcare, while others are forced to shoulder the same cost for thousands of individuals themselves.


Tsirist | Ascended Posting Riot
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Tsirist
IP: Logged

503 posts
 
I'm ok with investing $1.5t a year into the well-being of our people.

That's incredibly easy to say when your cost would be little more than what you already pay for healthcare, while others are forced to shoulder the same cost for thousands of individuals themselves.
Are we supposed to feel bad about that though? The social contract binds you to such obligations in many folks' minds. An appeal to its affects on the well-being of the economy would be more effective.


PSU | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: PSU
IP: Logged

6,102 posts
 
64% for earners over 4 mil? That's a fucking joke.

Punish people for being successful and they'll leave. Happened in Jersey, and it'll happen to the entire US.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
more |
XBL: Viva Redemption
PSN: HurtfulTurkey
Steam: HurtfulTurkey
ID: HurtfulTurkey
IP: Logged

8,120 posts
 
The social contract binds you to such obligations in many folks' minds.

You call it "the social contract" as if the concept is anything more than philosophers' ephemeral catch-all for government policy. Taxation is one of the most obvious forms of a social contract, but it certainly doesn't dictate specific terms; it can't be quantified, so it's irrelevant.

And on the other hand, in the face of many leading economists disparaging Sanders' plan as a net detriment to the country, wouldn't the same social contract demand we listen to them?


 
More Than Mortal
| d-d-d-DANK ✡ 🔥🔥🔥 🌈
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: MetaCognition
ID: Meta Cognition
IP: Logged

15,138 posts
This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I'm ok with investing $1.5t a year into the well-being of our people.
You mean other than the effects these taxes will have on economic growth?



Mad Max | Mythic Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: madmax0808
ID: Mad Max
IP: Logged

7,553 posts
 
I'm ok with investing $1.5t a year into the well-being of our people.
You mean other than the effects these taxes will have on economic growth?
Well if we can spend trillions on unnecessary wars, we can spend trillions on necessary things our people need.


Tsirist | Ascended Posting Riot
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Tsirist
IP: Logged

503 posts
 
You call it "the social contract" as if the concept is anything more than philosophers' ephemeral catch-all for government policy. Taxation is one of the most obvious forms of a social contract, but it certainly doesn't dictate specific terms; it can't be quantified, so it's irrelevant.

And on the other hand, in the face of many leading economists disparaging Sanders' plan as a net detriment to the country, wouldn't the same social contract demand we listen to them?
I guess it's irrelevant up until the point that the people who disagree with you get their way with government policy eh? :P

My point was merely that, if you want to say "you should feel bad for expecting some people to pay for many others" that you better be sure that the people you're speaking to agree. It's a pretty weak approach. I agree that the economists' opinions deserve attention. Hence my urging you to resort to such an argument over the other one.


Turkey | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
more |
XBL: Viva Redemption
PSN: HurtfulTurkey
Steam: HurtfulTurkey
ID: HurtfulTurkey
IP: Logged

8,120 posts
 
My point was merely that, if you want to say "you should feel bad for expecting some people to pay for many others" that you better be sure that the people you're speaking to agree.

I'm not asking you to feel bad, I'm trying to show that it's bad policy for the country while also being unfairly discriminatory of high-income earners.


 
More Than Mortal
| d-d-d-DANK ✡ 🔥🔥🔥 🌈
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: MetaCognition
ID: Meta Cognition
IP: Logged

15,138 posts
This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Well if we can spend trillions on unnecessary wars, we can spend trillions on necessary things our people need.
That's a non-sequitur. Even if you were overspending on defence, it doesn't then follow that such expenditure should be shifted elsewhere; you might just be overspending in general.

Nevertheless, you didn't even answer my question. You just gave me some vague platitude. So, allow me to ask you a few questions: why are you dismissing the fact that these taxes may have negative effects on economic growth, which seems especially likely given the kinds of taxes he wants to implement? Why are you okay with a payroll tax increase which is going to depress workers' wages? Why are you okay with reducing the after-tax income of taxpayers by around 13pc? In a world where deficit-reduction is key, what part of Sanders' plan actually addresses entitlement reform? Why are you putting faith in the voodoo economics and lies which underpin his healthcare policy? And there's the effects of corporation tax, and a financial transaction tax and higher income taxes.

Much like the Republicans', Bernie's plan on taxes and spending is a fiscal dumpster fire. The only good policy I can identify is the introduction of a carbon tax.


Mad Max | Mythic Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: madmax0808
ID: Mad Max
IP: Logged

7,553 posts
 
Well if we can spend trillions on unnecessary wars, we can spend trillions on necessary things our people need.
That's a non-sequitur. Even if you were overspending on defence, it doesn't then follow that such expenditure should be shifted elsewhere; you might just be overspending in general.

Nevertheless, you didn't even answer my question. You just gave me some vague platitude. So, allow me to ask you a few questions: why are you dismissing the fact that these taxes may have negative effects on economic growth, which seems especially likely given the kinds of taxes he wants to implement? Why are you okay with a payroll tax increase which is going to depress workers' wages? Why are you okay with reducing the after-tax income of taxpayers by around 13pc? In a world where deficit-reduction is key, what part of Sanders' plan actually addresses entitlement reform? Why are you putting faith in the voodoo economics and lies which underpin his healthcare policy? And there's the effects of corporation tax, and a financial transaction tax and higher income taxes.

Much like the Republicans', Bernie's plan on taxes and spending is a fiscal dumpster fire. The only good policy I can identify is the introduction of a carbon tax.
Because when fewer people are drowning in medical bills, which is one of the major causes of debt in the US, they can better participate in the marketplace, which grows the economy. What good is an economy if only a portion of your citizens can participate in it?


 
More Than Mortal
| d-d-d-DANK ✡ 🔥🔥🔥 🌈
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam: MetaCognition
ID: Meta Cognition
IP: Logged

15,138 posts
This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
Because when fewer people are drowning in medical bills
ACA solved the problem of bankruptcy via medical bills; medical debt can no longer push you over the edge by itself. It's also a fiction that Sanders' healthcare proposals will over any significant savings.

You also ignored most of my questions.


Onyx Sentinel | Heroic Posting Riot
 
more |
XBL: Onyx Commando97
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Ghost of Reach
IP: Logged

855 posts
 
64% for earners over 4 mil? That's a fucking joke.

Punish people for being successful and they'll leave. Happened in Jersey, and it'll happen to the entire US.
Gluttony is bad you know, at least the money won't go to waste.


maverick | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Maverick
IP: Logged

4,313 posts
 
Gluttony is bad you know
That's exactly what I said when I saw Sanders tax plan.


PSU | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: PSU
IP: Logged

6,102 posts
 
64% for earners over 4 mil? That's a fucking joke.

Punish people for being successful and they'll leave. Happened in Jersey, and it'll happen to the entire US.
Gluttony is bad you know, at least the money won't go to waste.

Whats my incentive to want to be a millionaire if the MAJORITY of my hard earned money is taken away?


Onyx Sentinel | Heroic Posting Riot
 
more |
XBL: Onyx Commando97
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Ghost of Reach
IP: Logged

855 posts
 
64% for earners over 4 mil? That's a fucking joke.

Punish people for being successful and they'll leave. Happened in Jersey, and it'll happen to the entire US.
Gluttony is bad you know, at least the money won't go to waste.

Whats my incentive to want to be a millionaire if the MAJORITY of my hard earned money is taken away?
If you still have a million - Good, If all your money is taken away -  I see your point.


 
Verbatim
| Komm, süßer Tod
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: Verbatim-1
Steam: Jaco230
ID: Verbatim
IP: Logged

48,284 posts
Whats my incentive to want to be a millionaire if the MAJORITY of my hard earned money is taken away?
You shouldn't want to be a millionaire.


Ian | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Gaara444
IP: Logged

9,264 posts
Signature goes here.
Money isn't finite. There seems to be a notion going around that there is only so much money in the country and that a substantial amount is being hoarded by a small elite.

Gluttony is bad you know, at least the money won't go to waste.


aREALgod | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: aTALLmidget
IP: Logged

5,201 posts
 
Whats my incentive to want to be a millionaire if the MAJORITY of my hard earned money is taken away?
You shouldn't want to be a millionaire.

What a stupid thing to say.


 
Verbatim
| Komm, süßer Tod
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: Verbatim-1
Steam: Jaco230
ID: Verbatim
IP: Logged

48,284 posts
What a stupid thing to say.
Fuck money.


aREALgod | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: aTALLmidget
IP: Logged

5,201 posts
 
What a stupid thing to say.
Fuck money.

Becoming wealthy, if not excessively wealthy, should be everyone's ideal end goal. Being poor never helped anyone.


 
Verbatim
| Komm, süßer Tod
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: Verbatim-1
Steam: Jaco230
ID: Verbatim
IP: Logged

48,284 posts
Becoming wealthy, if not excessively wealthy, should be everyone's ideal end goal. Being poor never helped anyone.
If everyone was rich, no one would be. That's the whole point.

Everyone should have the exact same amount of wealth.


aREALgod | Legendary Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: aTALLmidget
IP: Logged

5,201 posts
 
Becoming wealthy, if not excessively wealthy, should be everyone's ideal end goal. Being poor never helped anyone.
If everyone was rich, no one would be. That's the whole point.

Everyone should have the exact same amount of wealth.

Wrong. Some people are just better than others and are not deserving of equality.


 
SecondClass
| Carmen
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: ModernLocust
Steam:
ID: SecondClass
IP: Logged

30,147 posts
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
—Judge Aaron Satie
——Carmen
Good.


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: Madman Mordo
IP: Logged

7,258 posts
emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours

DUDE LETS TAX THE RICH TO SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS LMOA

Fuck sake, even if you bled every billionaire dry you still wouldn't be able to cover total government expenditure.
Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 11:42:51 AM by Mordo


 
Alternative Facts
| Mythic Forum Ninja
 
more |
XBL:
PSN:
Steam:
ID: IcyWind
IP: Logged

9,461 posts
 


 
Verbatim
| Komm, süßer Tod
 
more |
XBL:
PSN: Verbatim-1
Steam: Jaco230
ID: Verbatim
IP: Logged

48,284 posts
Good.
How is this good?
How is it good to help maintain the welfare of 300+ million people? How is it good to care about the health of the people in your society?

I have no idea. It's kinda like defining the word "the." Or explaining why 2+2=4.
Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 12:17:28 PM by Verbatim