Obama to Propose 2 Years of Community School for 'Free'

FYI to get a good job anywhere you already need a degree of some sort. It's not going to devalue the diploma any more than it already is. Plus that implies that everyone passes and gets it.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Yeah, you need a degree now because people keep pushing the idea that somehow to be successful, you need a piece of paper saying you were able to stay awake for a certain amount of hours. I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

> Manager at a department store

We're really reaching for some careers here.

Not everyone can be an astrophysicist. Someone's gotta provide them with material goods and access to said goods. Managerial positions aren't a bad job, and always have the prospect of moving from department to location to district.
Any higher, and yeah... you'll need that paper that people like to substitute for experience and common sense.

Exactly - managerial jobs are something most people can do without a college career. That doesn't make it a good career.

Because to qualify as a "good career" a position must require a college degree... right...

No - something that qualifies as a "good career" means the career, along with pay and benefits, will easily be able to sustain an adequate, modest lifestyle for you (and your loved ones), preferably being something you enjoy doing.

Of course, this is my definition. You may think otherwise.

I see plenty of management and leadership type roles in blue collar environments around here that can more than adequately provide a decent middle class lifestyle to a typical family. I tend to see more aged, experienced workers in those slots rather than the civilian equivalent of a 90-day wonder holing the position as well.

Maybe that's just the benefit of living outside of the suburbs though.

FYI to get a good job anywhere you already need a degree of some sort. It's not going to devalue the diploma any more than it already is. Plus that implies that everyone passes and gets it.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Yeah, you need a degree now because people keep pushing the idea that somehow to be successful, you need a piece of paper saying you were able to stay awake for a certain amount of hours. I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

> Manager at a department store

We're really reaching for some careers here.

Not everyone can be an astrophysicist. Someone's gotta provide them with material goods and access to said goods. Managerial positions aren't a bad job, and always have the prospect of moving from department to location to district.
Any higher, and yeah... you'll need that paper that people like to substitute for experience and common sense.

Exactly - managerial jobs are something most people can do without a college career. That doesn't make it a good career.

Because to qualify as a "good career" a position must require a college degree... right...

No - something that qualifies as a "good career" means the career, along with pay and benefits, will easily be able to sustain an adequate, modest lifestyle for you (and your loved ones), preferably being something you enjoy doing.

Of course, this is my definition. You may think otherwise.

I see plenty of management and leadership type roles in blue collar environments around here that can more than adequately provide a decent middle class lifestyle to a typical family.

That's great - here in New York State, you're screwed if that is your sole career.

FYI to get a good job anywhere you already need a degree of some sort. It's not going to devalue the diploma any more than it already is. Plus that implies that everyone passes and gets it.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Yeah, you need a degree now because people keep pushing the idea that somehow to be successful, you need a piece of paper saying you were able to stay awake for a certain amount of hours. I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

> Manager at a department store

We're really reaching for some careers here.

Not everyone can be an astrophysicist. Someone's gotta provide them with material goods and access to said goods. Managerial positions aren't a bad job, and always have the prospect of moving from department to location to district.
Any higher, and yeah... you'll need that paper that people like to substitute for experience and common sense.

Exactly - managerial jobs are something most people can do without a college career. That doesn't make it a good career.

Because to qualify as a "good career" a position must require a college degree... right...

No - something that qualifies as a "good career" means the career, along with pay and benefits, will easily be able to sustain an adequate, modest lifestyle for you (and your loved ones), preferably being something you enjoy doing.

Of course, this is my definition. You may think otherwise.

I see plenty of management and leadership type roles in blue collar environments around here that can more than adequately provide a decent middle class lifestyle to a typical family.

That's great - here in New York State, you're screwed if that is your sole career.

Move to a better state.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Part of the devaluation process isn't just people having more of a certain qualification, but it's the strain placed on educational infrastructure--it essentially turns it into a continuation of mass-schooling.

What really needs to be done is an improvement of primary and secondary education.

I agree with that last part but I still see nothing wrong with more people having a higher level of education.

Scarcity matters.

If more people have a masters degree, it becomes worth less. That's true in any sort of situation in which the supply of something goes up. We need to have higher levels of education as we get more and more information--of course--but we ought to do it in a way of occasionally restructuring all levels of education. Just pushing more and more people into university delays dealing with the problem and allows it to saturate and get worse and worse.

A free two years at community isn't giving more people masters degrees. All it does is give more people a shot at an AA and a potential jump start towards a bachelors or even as you say, a masters.

So your point seems kind of moot.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm

The labor participation among people with an AA is around the 64% mark. That means 36% of grads can't find a job right now. Put more people into the mix and that number will increase to the point people having to shell out over $25,000 in order to get 2-4 more years of college experience, vs. having to pay less than $10,000 for a community college

Or y'know.... make more jobs, rather than outsourcing shit overseas and blaming it on there being too many people with an education.

We would all love to see jobs brought back to America, but many of them that are outsource require no degree in the first place so it's redundant to have a degree in order to take phone calls at a office. On top of that, what do incentives do we even give companies in the first place? Because raising taxes to pay for this idea isn't helping one single bit

Oh boy. Take a moment to untwist your panties, m'kay? Just because you're giving people the opportunity towards 2 years at a community...that doesn't mean that they're actually gonna take it. If you don't have the grades in high school you're not going to make it to college anyway. What's 2 years gonna get you anyway? An associates? Okay, big deal. I mean, some people don't even get their associates completely done in 2 years anyway.

Why the fuck is more people with associates degrees bad anyways? All it means is that they're a bit more specialized towards a certain line of work, but uh...associates degrees now don't get you all that far anyway. The bottom line though, is that it might help you get your foot in the door for something better than a shitty retail/fast food job.

So if they're not going to take it, then exactly why suggest it in the first place and waste time? High school is very different from college. I went from being a B and C student to having a 3.30 GPA in college. And many people do get their AA done in 2 years

Did you even bother to look at the link I posted? About 35% of graduates are unemployed because the increase of people obtaining degrees. There's simply no market to accommodate these people and in return they have to spend even more time and money just to have a better chance when they shouldn't in the first place

Do you get it? Flooding the market with even more graduates when employment sucks is bad. In order to have a better chance, people have to spend more time and spend far more money than an associates degree to cost in order to possibly get a job

FYI to get a good job anywhere you already need a degree of some sort. It's not going to devalue the diploma any more than it already is. Plus that implies that everyone passes and gets it.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Yeah, you need a degree now because people keep pushing the idea that somehow to be successful, you need a piece of paper saying you were able to stay awake for a certain amount of hours. I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

> Manager at a department store

We're really reaching for some careers here.

Not everyone can be an astrophysicist. Someone's gotta provide them with material goods and access to said goods. Managerial positions aren't a bad job, and always have the prospect of moving from department to location to district.
Any higher, and yeah... you'll need that paper that people like to substitute for experience and common sense.

Exactly - managerial jobs are something most people can do without a college career. That doesn't make it a good career.

Because to qualify as a "good career" a position must require a college degree... right...

No - something that qualifies as a "good career" means the career, along with pay and benefits, will easily be able to sustain an adequate, modest lifestyle for you (and your loved ones), preferably being something you enjoy doing.

Of course, this is my definition. You may think otherwise.

I see plenty of management and leadership type roles in blue collar environments around here that can more than adequately provide a decent middle class lifestyle to a typical family.

That's great - here in New York State, you're screwed if that is your sole career.

Which is why NY is seeing more people moving to states with lesser taxes and better living accommodations

Did you even bother to look at the link I posted? About 35% of graduates are unemployed because the increase of people obtaining degrees. There's simply no market to accommodate these people and in return they have to spend even more time and money just to have a better chance when they shouldn't in the first place

Let me ask - does the link state what careers they are in at all?

FYI to get a good job anywhere you already need a degree of some sort. It's not going to devalue the diploma any more than it already is. Plus that implies that everyone passes and gets it.

What exactly is wrong with having more educated people anyway?

Yeah, you need a degree now because people keep pushing the idea that somehow to be successful, you need a piece of paper saying you were able to stay awake for a certain amount of hours. I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

> Manager at a department store

We're really reaching for some careers here.

Not everyone can be an astrophysicist. Someone's gotta provide them with material goods and access to said goods. Managerial positions aren't a bad job, and always have the prospect of moving from department to location to district.
Any higher, and yeah... you'll need that paper that people like to substitute for experience and common sense.

Exactly - managerial jobs are something most people can do without a college career. That doesn't make it a good career.

Because to qualify as a "good career" a position must require a college degree... right...

No - something that qualifies as a "good career" means the career, along with pay and benefits, will easily be able to sustain an adequate, modest lifestyle for you (and your loved ones), preferably being something you enjoy doing.

Of course, this is my definition. You may think otherwise.

I see plenty of management and leadership type roles in blue collar environments around here that can more than adequately provide a decent middle class lifestyle to a typical family.

That's great - here in New York State, you're screwed if that is your sole career.

Which is why NY is seeing more people moving to states with lesser taxes and better living accommodations

Thanks for the common knowledge?

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how? Bill Gates, one of the most richest men in the world, dropped out of college and created one of the biggest and most known corporations in history. He didn't need a degree to build what he created and it's pure brainwashing that to somehow to be middle-class, you somehow need a degree. Not everybody plans to be a chemist or astrophysicist and degrees to get careers to live a modest life style are complete scams 

For the fat cats on top, sure.
For the general public? It means getting a decent job is that much harder.

It also means goods can be bought cheaper. Outsourcing isn't the problem, a poor welfare and educational system is.

We should want these jobs to be outsourced, because it's the kind of work that doesn't need developed infrastructure to support--it gives income to people in the third world, and increases consumer surplus for people here. It isn't just a game of wage-rates for the "fat cats", you have to consider crime and other socioeconomic factors around your business. When they outsource, it really is because American labour is too expensive.

In saying that, the solution is again to restore trust in the mandatory educational system and maintain the equilibrium between the value of qualifications. Not just shunting more people into higher education and causing their new-found qualification to decrease in value.

I still say we need more (better) jobs, but that's an entirely different topic.

Yes, we do need more jobs but we can't simply create an artificial market for these jobs. You know what's possibly the greatest thing about America? That you don't need to fill out applications for a job and instead start your own. Just look at all the Chinese restaurants you see wherever you go: They were started by immigrants and were able to make a better life for their family because of their aspirations of the American Dream, which is still very much alive. However the nation has gotten lazier and you see among many people that building something is too much work

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I still say we need more (better) jobs, but that's an entirely different topic.

You can't force job creation.

Productivity and labour compensation have been rising steadily, side-by-side, since like the 1960s. It's not a case of the quality of the job, per se, but how much value you're facilitating. Taking a more macro perspective, what matters is providing a stable economy to facilitate proper expectations, not allow for debt deflation and keep inflation at around 2pc when possible.

I have my own ideas on how to do that, but it certainly doesn't involve trying to micromanage what jobs are done in the country.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

Not true, compensation for labour has been rising steadily with productivity at least since the start of the Great Moderation.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

Not true, compensation for labour has been rising steadily with productivity at least since the start of the Great Moderation.

The problem is, it's not nearly enough to keep up with the prices for basic goods.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

And you really don't. If I got a job at (insert store name here), I can work my way up to Manager.

That option is still there. Doesn't mean it's feasible.

The problem is, it's not nearly enough to keep up with the prices for basic goods.

So? That's inflation--that's a whole other topic.

I'm not entirely convinced that's an issue, anyway. The only reason it seems difficult at the moment is because of the Recession we're still sorta-kinda in. It has nothing to do with inflation accumulating over the years, because wages grow with it.

I mean, overall productivity of the economy--as well as labour income for that matter--are usually measured with inflation anyway.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

Not true, compensation for labour has been rising steadily with productivity at least since the start of the Great Moderation.

The problem is, it's not nearly enough to keep up with the prices for basic goods.

I really have to disagree from personal experience.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

Not true, compensation for labour has been rising steadily with productivity at least since the start of the Great Moderation.

The problem is, it's not nearly enough to keep up with the prices for basic goods.

I really have to disagree from personal experience.

And again, I disagree based on my personal experience.

Gotta love differences in states.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

hey this is kinda relevant to a story i have

first semester of college, i only had class on tuesdays and thursdays. i figured i could do some substitute teaching at the local elementary/middle schools on my offdays to make some extra cash and keep myself busy. guess what? in my state, substitute teachers need four year degrees!

 

Gotta love differences in states.

So what the fuck is Obama doing offering a nationwide solution to state problems?

Surely, if at all, it should be down to the states what they're doing with their colleges.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

hey this is kinda relevant to a story i have

first semester of college, i only had class on tuesdays and thursdays. i figured i could do some substitute teaching at the local elementary/middle schools on my offdays to make some extra cash and keep myself busy. guess what? in my state, substitute teachers need four year degrees!

 

Well....yes. I'd prefer my children's substitute teacher to be certified in teaching and be aware, nominally, of what they are teaching.

Gotta love differences in states.

So what the fuck is Obama doing offering a nationwide solution to state problems?

Surely, if at all, it should be down to the states what they're doing with their colleges.

Department of Education, and federal funding towards universities most likely.

Who knows, to be honest

Department of Education

Last time anything happened there was under Bush. . .

I think we all want to avoid anything like that happening again >.>

Department of Education

Last time anything happened there was under Bush. . .

I think we all want to avoid anything like that happening again >.>

You mean NCLB?

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

hey this is kinda relevant to a story i have

first semester of college, i only had class on tuesdays and thursdays. i figured i could do some substitute teaching at the local elementary/middle schools on my offdays to make some extra cash and keep myself busy. guess what? in my state, substitute teachers need four year degrees!

 

Well....yes. I'd prefer my children's substitute teacher to be certified in teaching and be aware, nominally, of what they are teaching.

you dont think that's a bit ridiculous? i can understand a 2 year degree, sure. anyone who has a high school diploma should have a nominal understanding of anything the kids are learning in public school.. even then, it's not really that important to have specific knowledge, because, in my experience, substitute teachers sat in a chair while the kids did pre-assigned work or just ran through pre-planned lectures the regular teacher left for them.

Department of Education

Last time anything happened there was under Bush. . .

I think we all want to avoid anything like that happening again >.>

You mean NCLB?

Well, that and the fact that the Dept. of Education's funding increased by 165pc.

Whether it fucking even did anything to the education system, I don't even know.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

hey this is kinda relevant to a story i have

first semester of college, i only had class on tuesdays and thursdays. i figured i could do some substitute teaching at the local elementary/middle schools on my offdays to make some extra cash and keep myself busy. guess what? in my state, substitute teachers need four year degrees!

 

Well....yes. I'd prefer my children's substitute teacher to be certified in teaching and be aware, nominally, of what they are teaching.

you dont think that's a bit ridiculous? i can understand a 2 year degree, sure. anyone who has a high school diploma should have a nominal understanding of anything the kids are learning in public school.. even then, it's not really that important to have specific knowledge, because, in my experience, substitute teachers sat in a chair while the kids did pre-assigned work or just ran through pre-planned lectures the regular teacher left for them.

'

Are we talking primary or secondary education?

Department of Education

Last time anything happened there was under Bush. . .

I think we all want to avoid anything like that happening again >.>

You mean NCLB?

Well, that and the fact that the Dept. of Education's funding increased by 165pc.

Whether it fucking even did anything to the education system, I don't even know.

It did not, because it was still considered an underfunded mandate.

I would love it so damn much if we can go back a couple of decades where anybody could be middle-class, have a simple high school diploma, and be a manager at a department store or wherever

People back then also weren't nearly as educated. But sure, go ahead and travel back in time. I'm sure you'd fit in perfectly.

Yep, just 20 years ago people were running around in nothing but a loin cloth and throwing rocks at animals to see what would be a better tool for hunting. Seriously, would it be any harm for you to think for once? If anybody would fit perfectly with cavemen it would be you

Twenty years ago, there was no internet for the general consumer. Phones were still tethered to a wall with a 20ft cable. Hell, have you seen their fashion?

It may only have been 20 years ago, but the world was quite different.

And that matters exactly how?

Because Kinder - you say shit like "Oh, I wish we could go back twenty years to where things were so much better!" - and then say "Oh, what does that matter" when some of the biggest innovations weren't even around.

Guess what - prices of products have gone up, wages for entry level jobs, along with positions like managers, has not significantly changed. Great, in 1995, you could live modestly as a manager. Shit was cheaper then.

I'm saying we should go back to when you don't need a degree in order to become the manager of McDonalds

hey this is kinda relevant to a story i have

first semester of college, i only had class on tuesdays and thursdays. i figured i could do some substitute teaching at the local elementary/middle schools on my offdays to make some extra cash and keep myself busy. guess what? in my state, substitute teachers need four year degrees!

 

Well....yes. I'd prefer my children's substitute teacher to be certified in teaching and be aware, nominally, of what they are teaching.

you dont think that's a bit ridiculous? i can understand a 2 year degree, sure. anyone who has a high school diploma should have a nominal understanding of anything the kids are learning in public school.. even then, it's not really that important to have specific knowledge, because, in my experience, substitute teachers sat in a chair while the kids did pre-assigned work or just ran through pre-planned lectures the regular teacher left for them.

'

Are we talking primary or secondary education?

when i say "substitute teacher," i mean someone whose job it is to fill in for public school teachers in K-12.

Gotta love differences in states.

So what the fuck is Obama doing offering a nationwide solution to state problems?

Surely, if at all, it should be down to the states what they're doing with their colleges.

I know I'm probably gonna get heat for saying this, but the legislative process has shown to be pretty slow and ineffective when it comes to bringing new things like this, because people are gonna bitch about it back and forth and ultimately just shut it down. And then nothing happens.

But uh. Again that's going a bit off topic so don't focus on this comment too much.

America's system is quite shit, I'll admit, but the good thing about conservative legislatures is that they don't go all gung-ho on you. I mean, take China--they have a really loose attitude towards policy--and it's good at the moment but it'd be really easy for somebody to fuck it up. And, in some respects, the Chinese already have have.

Some bickering is good at least, but you also need a degree of decentralisation to allow more local governments to operate in effective manners.