Obama to Propose 2 Years of Community School for 'Free'

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

Improving our communities and society takes sacrifice. If you're not willing to make it, it will never get better.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

At that, instead of just throwing more people at colleges, it would be much more beneficial to the poor to fix public education. This policy is an attempt to fix a symptom, not the problem.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

Doesn't my very existence right now disprove this?

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

Doesn't my very existence right now disprove this?

I wouldn't know. What do you do and what education do you have?

Yes, it's *possible* to have a good job without having a degree. Often, experience can be supplemented for education. But that's far from the norm.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

The problem is that it's a step toward an inarguable requirement, not that this policy makes it one. You're lending further credence to the common practice of disbarring people without diplomas. At that point (if it isn't close already) it's "live comfortably or on minimum wage". That's not a literal requirement, but it's a railroaded choice.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

In all reality is there any chance at all this will get passed?

In all reality is there any chance at all this will get passed?

Absolutely not. Republicans would never let something beneficial like this pass either the House or Senate.

We can't even get them in on a jobs bill for veterans they created.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

That's a problem of semantics. If it won't lead to argument over word choice, then I'll say that it was poorly worded on my behalf.

You're cutting your options significantly by not having a degree in a state of which there is still a financial barrier in the way of attaining one. So instead of tackling the problem, we're attacking the symptom and only fueling its progress. Instead of saying, "Hey, it's a problem that basic jobs are starting to require higher education", it instead support the policy by making it even easier to do!

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

That's a problem of semantics. If it won't lead to argument over word choice, then I'll say that it was poorly worded on my behalf.

You're cutting your options significantly by not having a degree in a state of which there is still a financial barrier in the way of attaining one. So instead of tackling the problem, we're attacking the symptom and only fueling its progress. Instead of saying, "Hey, it's a problem that basic jobs are starting to require higher education", it instead support the policy by making it even easier to do!

So if this isn't the answer, what is?

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

Doesn't my very existence right now disprove this?

I wouldn't know. What do you do and what education do you have?

Yes, it's *possible* to have a good job without having a degree. Often, experience can be supplemented for education. But that's far from the norm.

Aviation fueler.
I've got nothing but a diploma (aside from some completely irrelevant HS level vocational certificates) and no experience handling/storing petroleum product prior (though I do have limited experience in the aviation field, mechanically.)

There's also plenty of factory type job around here that'll pay upwards of 15/h to their assembly line. Granted, the best paying options are the most hazardous parts in the manufacturing of industrial batteries. I avoid that place just because I hate the company though... but people who've been there a few years can more than support a family.
Mushroom farms pay surprisingly well for how menial the labor is.
 Folks in the warehouse I used to work at pulled over 12 with very nice benefits, and that seems to be on the low side for distribution facilities here (or so I heard). The only ones on government benefits was the token Mexican with 5 daughters and a Dominican kid with an obama phone.  I didn't even know how to operate a forklift when I got in there...

In all reality is there any chance at all this will get passed?

Absolutely not. Republicans would never let something beneficial like this pass either the House or Senate.

We can't even get them in on a jobs bill for veterans they created.

Beneficial LOL

Increasing taxes and further decreasing the value of a college degree. Great plan Obama.

Although I do applaud him for addressing those horrendous calls in last Sunday's Dallas-Detroit game.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

That's a problem of semantics. If it won't lead to argument over word choice, then I'll say that it was poorly worded on my behalf.

You're cutting your options significantly by not having a degree in a state of which there is still a financial barrier in the way of attaining one. So instead of tackling the problem, we're attacking the symptom and only fueling its progress. Instead of saying, "Hey, it's a problem that basic jobs are starting to require higher education", it instead support the policy by making it even easier to do!

So if this isn't the answer, what is?

Instead of railroading people into higher education, fix the problem at its source: core education. Fix curriculum and stop increasing standardized testing. And I don't mean Common Core, I mean actually fix it instead of doing the same-old-same-old with deceptive advertising. I hope you don't expect me to write a bill here, because I assume you know enough about the state of core education in the US to know that it is a serious problem. If you don't, I'll be glad to keep discussing it.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

That's a problem of semantics. If it won't lead to argument over word choice, then I'll say that it was poorly worded on my behalf.

You're cutting your options significantly by not having a degree in a state of which there is still a financial barrier in the way of attaining one. So instead of tackling the problem, we're attacking the symptom and only fueling its progress. Instead of saying, "Hey, it's a problem that basic jobs are starting to require higher education", it instead support the policy by making it even easier to do!

So if this isn't the answer, what is?

Instead of railroading people into higher education, fix the problem at its source: core education. Fix curriculum and stop increasing standardized testing. And I don't mean Common Core, I mean actually fix it instead of doing the same-old-same-old with deceptive advertising. I hope you don't expect me to write a bill here, because I assume you know enough about the state of core education in the US to know that it is a serious problem. If you don't, I'll be glad to keep discussing it.

I don't disagree that public education is terribly flawed. However, nearly everyone on this site disagrees with me about Common Core [many because they don't really understand it, but I wont jump to conclusions]

I certainly do think CC is a step in the right direction. The end-all, be-all? Unlikely. But we wont really be able to measure its effects until maybe a decade down the road since it's still so new.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

It's already a societal requirement, we don't need to give it a foundation by further excusing it.

By giving people who couldn't previously afford it a chance at higher education, you're giving them a chance to rise out of the vicious cycle of poverty. We'll all be better off for it in the end.

By making higher education a requirement instead of an option, you're diminishing the value of it. There's no reason why someone needs to get a bachelor's degree to be a McDonald's manager, and because of actions such as this policy it will only gain more traction.

It's not going to be a requirement. Nobody's being FORCED to go to community college. The option is there for you if you need it.

You just said that it's already a requirement for jobs above minimum wage, how is it a good thing to further support that policy by offering college to more people instead of fixing the education system in the first place?

No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

In today's job market, you cut your options significantly by not having a degree.

That's a problem of semantics. If it won't lead to argument over word choice, then I'll say that it was poorly worded on my behalf.

You're cutting your options significantly by not having a degree in a state of which there is still a financial barrier in the way of attaining one. So instead of tackling the problem, we're attacking the symptom and only fueling its progress. Instead of saying, "Hey, it's a problem that basic jobs are starting to require higher education", it instead support the policy by making it even easier to do!

So if this isn't the answer, what is?

Instead of railroading people into higher education, fix the problem at its source: core education. Fix curriculum and stop increasing standardized testing. And I don't mean Common Core, I mean actually fix it instead of doing the same-old-same-old with deceptive advertising. I hope you don't expect me to write a bill here, because I assume you know enough about the state of core education in the US to know that it is a serious problem. If you don't, I'll be glad to keep discussing it.

I don't disagree that public education is terribly flawed. However, nearly everyone on this site disagrees with me about Common Core [many because they don't really understand it, but I wont jump to conclusions]

I certainly do think CC is a step in the right direction. The end-all, be-all? Unlikely. But we wont really be able to measure its effects until maybe a decade down the road since it's still so new.

My mother's a teacher and my 12th grade English teacher was an ex-journalist who heavily researches Common Core, so forgive me if I'm a little too close to the subject. I'll simply leave my view on CC at this: if it functioned how it is advertised, then I would be all for it. But they take huge liberties in their description of it, and I don't agree with the reality of it.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

Where have you been? College education is essential. If you're a normal adult, people expect you to have a diploma.

I would have enjoyed getting my first 2 years of College free (they almost were, due to scholarships).
But I think this will decrease the value of 2 year degrees even more.

And taxes........gotta love them taxes.

Taxes are near a historic low.

They're still too high.

Taxes are near a historic low.

They're still too high.

Whelp. Let's get rid of anything using tax payer dollars and start anew.

My biggest gripe is that this move is another step towards making college essential education and ruining the value of a diploma.

It already is. If you want a job that pays more than minimum wage, you need a degree.

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Is it not obvious to anyone else that this is just another policy that's supposed to sound good to people but doesn't actually help with anything?

But why would he be worried about this if he's not up for re-election and Republicans will control House and Senate until after he's gone regardless?

We'll all be better off for it in the end.

Not if everybody's qualifications are worth less. . .

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No, I didn't say it was required. I said it was essential. Small, but important difference.

. . .

"Essential" literally means "necessary".

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Some degrees are in demand and some aren't.

That's exactly the problem--the government is propping up a scheme whereby un-demanded qualifications will become artificially demanded because the price mechanism has been turned on its head.