Not teaching creationism is limiting a student's education

Dustin · October 07, 2014, 11:41:47 AM

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More Than Mortal · October 07, 2014, 11:43:06 AM

Creationism can be taught in religious studies classes.

Not science.

Dustin · October 07, 2014, 11:44:14 AM

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Mad Max · October 07, 2014, 11:46:11 AM

Quote from: Dustin on October 07, 2014, 11:44:14 AM

It's based off observation and math

Except there's literally no observation or math involved

Creationism is inherently unscientific and you cannot employ the scientific method. Thus, it shouldn't be taught in science class.

Kinder Graham · October 07, 2014, 11:48:19 AM

Dustin, are you like changing or something?

I actually agree. More emphasis should be taught on evolution but acknowledge creationism as another idea. Neither have been proven true so it's dumb to say to teach one when teaching both gives a more in-depth educational experience

Turkey · October 07, 2014, 11:49:28 AM

Yeah, and not teaching music theory in a math class is also limiting their education. As a Christian, I don't even want creationism in a science class. Western Creationism is a joke of a philosophy.

PSU · October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM

I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.

Dustin · October 07, 2014, 11:51:46 AM

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RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 11:52:48 AM

Le costnaza faec

More Than Mortal · October 07, 2014, 11:52:56 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM

I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.

This guy gets it.

Mad Max · October 07, 2014, 11:54:19 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM

I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.

I would support this. I would have liked to take religious history classes and such.

clum clum · October 07, 2014, 11:54:39 AM

Imminent fedora tippers

Mad Max · October 07, 2014, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: Dustin on October 07, 2014, 11:51:46 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 07, 2014, 11:46:11 AM
Quote from: Dustin on October 07, 2014, 11:44:14 AM
It's based off observation and math
Except there's literally no observation or math involved

Creationism is inherently unscientific and you cannot employ the scientific method. Thus, it shouldn't be taught in science class.
But that's implying that evolution is scientific. What evidence is there for evolution besides fossils that can't even be accurately dated?

God · October 07, 2014, 11:55:00 AM

Quote from: Dustin on October 07, 2014, 11:41:47 AM

Until you can prove evolution

Evolution is a scientific theory, in the same league as the fundamental forces, special relativity, cell theory and germ theory.

In other words, it has been proven, unless you also want to give equal time to teach kids that it's sin pulling us towards hell underground, that we're really made of dust (OR clay), and that diseases are caused by miasmas.

Kinder Graham · October 07, 2014, 11:56:35 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM

I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.

If all religions are taught, then I don't see the issue but still, not a good idea. You can take religion classes in college

challengerX · October 07, 2014, 11:56:41 AM

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PSU · October 07, 2014, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 07, 2014, 11:54:19 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.
I would support this. I would have liked to take religious history classes and such.

Exactly. This way creationism (and other religions) stay out of science and kids can actually learn about different religions.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:01:10 PM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 07, 2014, 11:54:19 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.
I would support this. I would have liked to take religious history classes and such.

This is America, they'd be shit.

They'd be PC as hell and boring in modern regions, and be nothing more than a Bible study class in the south.

God · October 07, 2014, 12:08:04 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:59:39 AM

Quote from: Mad Max on October 07, 2014, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
I agree. There should be religion classes in all schools.
I would support this. I would have liked to take religious history classes and such.

Exactly. This way creationism (and other religions) stay out of science and kids can actually learn about different religions.

When I was in High School my world history class actually did an entire segment on Islam, we had to study the 5 pillars, the differences between Sunni and Shia, and the Isreal/Palestine conflict.

That's Californian education for you. I actually thought it was a pretty decent class even if it was rather shallow, I would have loved it if they did the same with other major religions.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM

If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fucking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

More Than Mortal · October 07, 2014, 12:27:54 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM

If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

We should at least teach all of the Abrahamic religions to some degree in schools, as well as maybe two of contemporary Eastern tradition.

Only in explicitly marked religious studies classes, though.

Spoiler

I don't know why I'm saying "we" as if I live in the U.S. or have some stake in it.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:31:49 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 07, 2014, 12:27:54 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM
If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.
We should at least teach all of the Abrahamic religions to some degree in schools, as well as maybe two of contemporary Eastern tradition.

Only in explicitly marked religious studies classes, though.

Spoiler
I don't know why I'm saying "we" as if I live in the U.S. or have some stake in it.

Why those specifically?

What makes them any more valid than the other thousands of belief systems man has tried on over the millennia?

More Than Mortal · October 07, 2014, 12:33:16 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:31:49 PM

What makes them any more valid than the other thousands of belief systems man has tried on over the millennia?

Nothing theologically.

But to pretend that knowledge about current religions - and subsequently their socio-politico-economic effect - is worthless is to lie.

Super Irish · October 07, 2014, 12:37:45 PM

Not in the same class.

If they did this for Geology, I'd be getting one stratigraphic chart* going back 4.8 billion years, and then another with only 6000 years old and a layer where it'll be "SEDIMENT LAID DOWN AFTER GOD'S FLOOD".

It's not compatible. Sure,teach it to give alternate viewpoints but don't teach it like a fact.

*Sorry, flaunting what little knowledge I've gained since Monday. Sorry.

PSU · October 07, 2014, 12:38:24 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM

If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fracking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

Who said that?

I'd want all religions taught.

Surely schools could get through all major religions within 4 years of highschool.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:38:40 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on October 07, 2014, 12:33:16 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:31:49 PM
What makes them any more valid than the other thousands of belief systems man has tried on over the millennia?
Nothing theologically.

But to pretend that knowledge about current religions - and subsequently their socio-politico-economic effect - is worthless is to lie.

You're right, but educators are not perfect, and you can be sure there will be skewed depictions of these belief sets from every teacher. It's bad enough here in NC, one of the more respectable southern states, where every year I've had one or two teachers start preaching to the class about some religious matter or other. You can be sure that it would devolve into a bible study/islam bashing session here.

Religious history? That I can get behind, studying the development and spread of these religions.

But to just teach the faiths? God, no. That is disaster in the making.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:39:31 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:38:24 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM
If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fracking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

Who said that?

I'd want all religions taught.

Surely schools could get through all major religions within 4 years of highschool.

No, not all major religions, all religions we know of, ever.

Popularity does not equal validity.

PSU · October 07, 2014, 12:40:41 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:39:31 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM
If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fracking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

Who said that?

I'd want all religions taught.

Surely schools could get through all major religions within 4 years of highschool.
No, not all major religions, all religions we know of, ever.

Popularity does not equal validity.

So you learn ALL Instruments in music?
All art styles in Art?
All sports in PE?

No, you learn the major ones.

RustingFloor · October 07, 2014, 12:42:20 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:40:41 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM
If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fracking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

Who said that?

I'd want all religions taught.

Surely schools could get through all major religions within 4 years of highschool.
No, not all major religions, all religions we know of, ever.

Popularity does not equal validity.

So you learn ALL Instruments in music?
All art styles in Art?
All sports in PE?

No, you learn the major ones.

I get what you're trying to say, but religion is a whole other matter.

These aren't styles or subgenres or games, they are belief sets. To promote a few while ignoring others is to treat them as if they are more valid, which is quite simply untrue.

Mad Max · October 07, 2014, 12:56:33 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:40:41 PM

Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:39:31 PM
Quote from: PSU on October 07, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: RustingFloor on October 07, 2014, 12:25:52 PM
If we are to teach the Abrahamic creation story in school, we must also teach every other creation story.

Hindu, Buddhist, ancient Norse, Greek, Zoroastrian, Sikh, etc.

We just don't have time to cover all of that, so why should we cover any one specifically at all?

Oh, that's fracking right, because Christians want their religion, and only theirs, cemented and enforced in our schools and government.

Who said that?

I'd want all religions taught.

Surely schools could get through all major religions within 4 years of highschool.
No, not all major religions, all religions we know of, ever.

Popularity does not equal validity.

So you learn ALL Instruments in music?
All art styles in Art?
All sports in PE?

No, you learn the major ones.

Right, but schools [public schools, at least] are required to take a neutral position on issues such as religion. Obviously they don't have to be neutral in music and art class.