Net Neutrality Dead?

 
Cheat
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how long would it take for Sep7agon to load up if net neutrality is gone?

I would be surprised if it still exists. ISP would blacklist this site if Cheat himself doesn't censor it.

You know what would be nice? If the website was actually privatized where it wouldn't be google indexed. Do we really need guests to read our posts?

The only board that's safe is Anarchy
This site has such a small footprint that I doubt it would make a significant difference, broski. The fall of net neutrality is probably only going to significantly affect streaming services and web apps unless ISPs really do go full ham and block off all parts of the internet except for a few (which I can see them doing by offering cheap "netflix and facebook only" plans or something so they can jack the price of regular internet access up.

Don't have a fit, is all I'm saying. It's probably going to be fine. :)


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how long would it take for Sep7agon to load up if net neutrality is gone?

I would be surprised if it still exists. ISP would blacklist this site if Cheat himself doesn't censor it.

You know what would be nice? If the website was actually privatized where it wouldn't be google indexed. Do we really need guests to read our posts?

The only board that's safe is Anarchy
This site has such a small footprint that I doubt it would make a significant difference, broski. The fall of net neutrality is probably only going to significantly affect streaming services and web apps unless ISPs really do go full ham and block off all parts of the internet except for a few (which I can see them doing by offering cheap "netflix and facebook only" plans or something so they can jack the price of regular internet access up.

Don't have a fit, is all I'm saying. It's probably going to be fine. :)

Okay then let me ask you this. If its going to be all fine, why does Newgrounds have a warning pop up on this urging its users to call their local congressmen?

This means it can affect websites too. That includes Sep7agon.

I know this place isn't big like NG but it still counts. We're not a private website. If all of our posts are google indexed and the site is visible to guests, we're pretty much public.


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I live in a country without codified net neutrality laws and the internet is the same as in the states. I'm interested to see what restrictions ISPs would place on VPNs though. With broadband access becoming increasingly less expensive for ISPs to provide, even at high speeds and bandwidth usage, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to implement these hypothetical plans except as an attempt to eek out a bit more profit from customers, but at a huge risk given the public attitude towards exclusive plans.


 
 
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I live in a country without codified net neutrality laws and the internet is the same as in the states. I'm interested to see what restrictions ISPs would place on VPNs though. With broadband access becoming increasingly less expensive for ISPs to provide, even at high speeds and bandwidth usage, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to implement these hypothetical plans except as an attempt to eek out a bit more profit from customers, but at a huge risk given the public attitude towards exclusive plans.
I think there's two things to keep in mind though. One, Japan has long had a much more competitive ISP market than the US, although it's recently been dwindling and formal net neutrality rules are being proposed. In the US, 80% of the country has only 1 or 2 carriers offering broadband speeds to choose from. There is a lot less competition and consumer choice, giving ISP's a lot more power to adopt these kind of practices. Two, there's a lot more to this than just legal net neutrality protections. Consumer protection, telecoms standards and quality of service requirements, antitrust / competition law and the influence of supervisory authorities (which is sorely lacking with the FTC in the US) are all important aspects of this, and while I'm no expert on Japanese law, I do know that the US isn't exemplary in many of these due to the power big companies have. That is all just to say that there's a lot more that goes into this than whether or not net neutrality is a formal law or not. Just because Japan gets by without it very well does not mean other countries will do the same.

I also think that the public attitude is probably overstated. When I brought up the issue with my girlfriend's family two weeks ago in the US, none of them had heard about it before. When I explained what might happen, they didn't think that the tiered / laned internet sounded that bad and would shrug at it becoming like a cable box service. The online minority just shouts very loudly while I'm willing to bet a very large chunk of the population doesn't care and wouldn't be too bothered by these practices.


 
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how long would it take for Sep7agon to load up if net neutrality is gone?

I would be surprised if it still exists. ISP would blacklist this site if Cheat himself doesn't censor it.

You know what would be nice? If the website was actually privatized where it wouldn't be google indexed. Do we really need guests to read our posts?

The only board that's safe is Anarchy
This site has such a small footprint that I doubt it would make a significant difference, broski. The fall of net neutrality is probably only going to significantly affect streaming services and web apps unless ISPs really do go full ham and block off all parts of the internet except for a few (which I can see them doing by offering cheap "netflix and facebook only" plans or something so they can jack the price of regular internet access up.

Don't have a fit, is all I'm saying. It's probably going to be fine. :)

Okay then let me ask you this. If its going to be all fine, why does Newgrounds have a warning pop up on this urging its users to call their local congressmen?

This means it can affect websites too. That includes Sep7agon.

I know this place isn't big like NG but it still counts. We're not a private website. If all of our posts are google indexed and the site is visible to guests, we're pretty much public.
I meant it was probably going to be fine for this site. Any large site, especially one that is software as a service, is going to feel the pain.


 
 
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Okay then let me ask you this. If its going to be all fine, why does Newgrounds have a warning pop up on this urging its users to call their local congressmen?

This means it can affect websites too. That includes Sep7agon.

I know this place isn't big like NG but it still counts. We're not a private website. If all of our posts are google indexed and the site is visible to guests, we're pretty much public.
Why exactly do you think this will affect sep7agon? I really cannot see how it would, yet you're talking about it with almost certainty.


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Get of my lawn
Okay then let me ask you this. If its going to be all fine, why does Newgrounds have a warning pop up on this urging its users to call their local congressmen?

This means it can affect websites too. That includes Sep7agon.

I know this place isn't big like NG but it still counts. We're not a private website. If all of our posts are google indexed and the site is visible to guests, we're pretty much public.
Why exactly do you think this will affect sep7agon? I really cannot see how it would, yet you're talking about it with almost certainty.

It could very much effect Simple Machines. They host us.


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One, Japan has long had a much more competitive ISP market than the US, although it's recently been dwindling and formal net neutrality rules are being proposed.
Most people just go with one of a few mobile carriers for their internet access, even at home. It's a lot like the non-competitive market in the states. I'm not convinced that ending or changing the current laws will plunge the U.S. into a dark age of internet (nor did it prior to 2015). I do support net neutrality.
Quote
I also think that the public attitude is probably overstated. When I brought up the issue with my girlfriend's family two weeks ago in the US, none of them had heard about it before. When I explained what might happen, they didn't think that the tiered / laned internet sounded that bad and would shrug at it becoming like a cable box service. The online minority just shouts very loudly while I'm willing to bet a very large chunk of the population doesn't care and wouldn't be too bothered by these practices.
We're kind of talking about two different ramifications, although some might claim they go hand in hand. One is that the internet is divided into tiered service bundles allowing you to add or remove certain high-bandwidth services like streaming video or gaming, and the other is the the potential for competitors to impose restrictions on each other, influence political content, etc. The latter is what really concerns me, whereas the former just seems like an extension of the current subscription plans various services already impose. I think most people like your girlfriend's family see the removal of NN as the chance that Cox might let them pay less since they don't play internet games or stream Netflix, when in could mean much more.


 
 
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Most people just go with one of a few mobile carriers for their internet access, even at home. It's a lot like the non-competitive market in the states. I'm not convinced that ending or changing the current laws will plunge the U.S. into a dark age of internet (nor did it prior to 2015). I do support net neutrality.
I agree with you on that. I support net neutrality but think there's a generous amount of exaggerating and doomsday scenarios being thrown around on the pro-NN side as well. And I don't doubt that most people stick with one of a few (mobile) carriers in Japan, but it is to my knowledge still more competitive than the US where home internet is still very common and many people simply do not have any real choice whatsoever. I've done some reading after your last post and found a government report (albeit slightly outdated) saying there's sufficient competition as well as some published studies that are only now (2016 and after) finding issues with competition, which is why the authors suggested net neutrality becoming a formal law in Japan as well.

Quote
We're kind of talking about two different ramifications, although some might claim they go hand in hand. One is that the internet is divided into tiered service bundles allowing you to add or remove certain high-bandwidth services like streaming video or gaming, and the other is the the potential for competitors to impose restrictions on each other, influence political content, etc. The latter is what really concerns me, whereas the former just seems like an extension of the current subscription plans various services already impose. I think most people like your girlfriend's family see the removal of NN as the chance that Cox might let them pay less since they don't play internet games or stream Netflix, when in could mean much more.
I don't think it's unreasonable to claim that they go hand in hand. Imposing these packages can be harmful to beginning businesses who might miss out on traffic or simply won't be able to pay or compete with larger competitors who can be included in the preferential / fast lane. And even though the anti-competition or political influence consequences are much more worrisome, I sure am not interested in being excluded from certain parts of the most free and global network ever created unless I pay to have specific parts of it unlocked. This isn't like cable where copyright, intellectual property, editorial decisions and whatnot are hugely important. I also think that some of the concerns (for example, people paying more for services they don't use) are very often unfounded as we do already have data plans (something which does not violate net neutrality at all). My grandma doesn't stream or play video games, so she gets by with the cheapest internet package giving her slower speeds and a datacap of a few dozen gigs a month. Internet usage and speed does not require a one size fits all approach, but that doesn't mean that the actual content of what people see and use it for should be restricted or differentiated between.

I don't think we actually disagree on this issue. We both support net neutrality and are skeptical of some of the doomsday scenarios. I also don't believe that the internet will be dead upon the removal of these rules. The rest of the world will do just fine and even in the US I don't think it'll be that disastrous. I just think that there is a reason for its repeal and no matter what it ends up being, it doesn't look for the consumer.


 
 
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Okay then let me ask you this. If its going to be all fine, why does Newgrounds have a warning pop up on this urging its users to call their local congressmen?

This means it can affect websites too. That includes Sep7agon.

I know this place isn't big like NG but it still counts. We're not a private website. If all of our posts are google indexed and the site is visible to guests, we're pretty much public.
Why exactly do you think this will affect sep7agon? I really cannot see how it would, yet you're talking about it with almost certainty.

It could very much effect Simple Machines. They host us.
Fair enough, but I think it's unlikely that this will happen. Cheat can also pick a host in a different country, so we'll end up being fine.


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The time to act to stop this shit is now. We should start signing petitions and having an uproar. This isn't the first time we've had to deal with this bullshit, and it sure as hell won't be the last. There will be more bullshit acts like SOPA and PIPA trying to crop up, but we need to fight all of them, because these idiots don't understand how the internet works. Its not a fucking landline you rich old white fuckers, so many businesses even rely on an open and free internet. You do that and you're killing jobs.


Let me say this now, I actually regret voting for Trump. I really do, but I sure as fuck wasn't going to vote for Hillary. Even if I didn't vote for him he still would have won and I would have felt better about myself for not getting involved, instead I'm fucking kicking myself for it.

So the only way to stop making another fucking mistake is to not get involved in my case. I'm done with the game of politics and I want my internet to remain open and free so fucking cucks like Trump won't touch it.

Sign below the dotted line of this post if you agree that we need to save Net Neutrality and stop this bullshit from happening once again.

- -- -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - - - - -
~Deci
If Trump is undoing everything Obama did that can't be a bad thing.

You do know that if Net Neutrality dies for good this website goes under with it right?
YouTube

This is why I'm against it.

Are you fucking retarded?


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The time to act to stop this shit is now. We should start signing petitions and having an uproar. This isn't the first time we've had to deal with this bullshit, and it sure as hell won't be the last. There will be more bullshit acts like SOPA and PIPA trying to crop up, but we need to fight all of them, because these idiots don't understand how the internet works. Its not a fucking landline you rich old white fuckers, so many businesses even rely on an open and free internet. You do that and you're killing jobs.


Let me say this now, I actually regret voting for Trump. I really do, but I sure as fuck wasn't going to vote for Hillary. Even if I didn't vote for him he still would have won and I would have felt better about myself for not getting involved, instead I'm fucking kicking myself for it.

So the only way to stop making another fucking mistake is to not get involved in my case. I'm done with the game of politics and I want my internet to remain open and free so fucking cucks like Trump won't touch it.

Sign below the dotted line of this post if you agree that we need to save Net Neutrality and stop this bullshit from happening once again.

- -- -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - - - - -
~Deci
If Trump is undoing everything Obama did that can't be a bad thing.

You do know that if Net Neutrality dies for good this website goes under with it right?
YouTube

This is why I'm against it.

Are you fucking retarded?
I don't trust Obama's work which has been a disaster worldwide.


 
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RIP ENDIE
Is Net Neutrality kill?


 
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Yeah, it's pretty bad news. Happy to be far away from the US for stuff like this, or I'd be salty about it too. Good luck over there, I hope it doesn't make it.
only, remember that most of the top websites on the internet (as well as its infrastructure) are still based in the US

so this actually affects the entire world

job well done
Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:13:29 PM by Verbatim


Genghis Khan | Heroic Posting Rampage
 
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If you look at what Trump has done he has been great. Dare I say the best president in 100 years.


 
 
Flee
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Yeah, it's pretty bad news. Happy to be far away from the US for stuff like this, or I'd be salty about it too. Good luck over there, I hope it doesn't make it.
only, remember that most of the top websites on the internet (as well as its infrastructure) are still based in the US

so this actually affects the entire world

job well done
I don't really think so. The idea that "the infrastructure" (or most of it) of the internet lies in the US is a pretty  slanted way of presenting how the internet actually works and how data traffic operates through low tier networks, webhosts and IXP's. The vast majority (around 80%) of the world's international cross-border bandwith actually goes through Europe, not the US, and has done so for the past decade and a half. The effects of this are almost guaranteed to be minimal for other developed countries with stronger internet regulations than the US. The top websites you're referring to are big enough to have a global presence that greatly transcends the US alone. The effects, if any, are going to be limited to them changing their behavior in a way that it indirectly affects Europeans as well through things like different business practices caused by lost revenue. The US hasn't been the leader when it comes to digital policy in quite and its repeal of net neutrality is unlikely to matter much here. If anything, it's going to drive more companies and startups towards the EU and the benefit of Europe.

I'm all in favor of net neutrality. As part of my education and job, I've probably been aware and in support of it longer than anyone on this site. This is bad news, but it remains to be seen whether the worst case scenarios will actually happen, and the effects on the rest of the developed world are likely to be small.
Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:40:36 PM by Flee


 
 
Flee
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Also, don't forget that this is now headed for the courts. The real battle for the American open internet is really only just beginning.


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Also, don't forget that this is now headed for the courts. The real battle for the American open internet is really only just beginning.

Exactly, not over by a long shot.

People need to relax.


 
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it SHOULD be over

it shouldn't have even begun

that's why you shouldn't relax


 
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The battle has just begun


And every time I say that I read it in a Bane voice for whatever reason


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If you look at what Trump has done he has been great. Dare I say the best president in 100 years.

Shut the fuck up, you mouthbreathing idiot.


 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
So did we give trumpf a chance yet? Is that satisfactory? Do you guys feel safe and comfortable now the "stress" of the election is over? Does all this shit that's happened since he won feel like "back to normal" for you? Democracy really is a fucking joke. Letting a bunch of barely cognizant monkeys decide which piece of shit gets to fuck us in the ass.


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Excuse me, I'm full of dog poison
So did we give trumpf a chance yet? Is that satisfactory? Do you guys feel safe and comfortable now the "stress" of the election is over? Does all this shit that's happened since he won feel like "back to normal" for you? Democracy really is a fucking joke. Letting a bunch of barely cognizant monkeys decide which piece of shit gets to fuck us in the ass.

Two party systems never work. We need more variety in our ass rape.


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Hey.
I came here from b.net after a few Floods invited me. None of them post on either b.net nor here anymore, which is sad. I was still active on b.net until for some bizarre reason, b.net admins locked out people who have not played Destiny. Even if you wanted to post on the offtopic section. After that, I fully moved here and have not returned to b.net since.
Please come play Halo with me.
Second amendment  used for its purpose when?


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So did we give trumpf a chance yet? Is that satisfactory? Do you guys feel safe and comfortable now the "stress" of the election is over? Does all this shit that's happened since he won feel like "back to normal" for you? Democracy really is a fucking joke. Letting a bunch of barely cognizant monkeys decide which piece of shit gets to fuck us in the ass.

Two party systems never work. We need more variety in our ass rape.
The bad thing about multi party system is that you have to make compromises all the time.


 
 
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Second amendment  used for its purpose when?
I know you're joking, but probably never. It's one of the biggest flaws with the whole "armed militia ready to overthrow the government turned dictatorship" argument. The American people, probably now more than any other time in recent history, are extremely divided. Each side has its own "breaking points" but what these are and where the limits lie are completely different. The general idea of stopping a tyrannical government from oppressing its people is the same, but what constitutes tyrannical and oppressive is very subjective. The alt left might think it's acceptable and even good that the government starts throwing people in prison for using the wrong pronoun for trans people, while the alt right might rise up against what they perceive as tyranny. Vice versa, the alt right might think it's the right thing for the government to round up all Muslims in camps and deport them, while the alt left might see this as clear oppression and revolt.

Even within each (vague) group, there's going to be a lot of different opinions on when violence and the use of firearms is necessary or called for. Some will continue supporting peaceful protests and put their hope in the democratic process to fix things, while others will call for violence much sooner. The "absolute" breaking point of full on soldiers marching through the streets and shooting people for having the wrong opinion is not going to happen, so there's always going to be massive disagreements on what the tipping point is. And this isn't anything new. Think back just a few decades of the revelations of mass surveillance in the US. Many people were appalled and opposed it tremendously, but millions agreed with the likes of Nixon that this was in the country's best interests and security.

If a large group actually rises up against the government, it will cause an all out civil war and things will backfire tremendously. If a smaller group rises up, it'll just be seen as a bunch of stupid nutjobs acting up (as is the case with the "sovereign" people who hold down a ranch, start a cult and get into a fight with the FBI over illegal activities).

And all of that doesn't even touch upon the other issues, like what would happen after a revolt. If it failed, we'd see insurgency warfare in a civil conflict with the government and the other groups cracking down on them hard. If it succeeded, we'd now have a new and even more tyrannical government in place that'd be oppressive over the other sides.

It sounds nice at first and on paper, but it either needs a society with similar views of what government behavior is acceptable and when revolts are the answer (which in the US is about as far from being the case as possible) or a government that crosses an absolute line quickly and boldly (which in the US is never going to happen). In recent history, non-violent protests and the use of the democratic process has been much more successful to bring change than armed violence. Armed militias are much more likely to lead to tyranny than prevent or overthrow it.
Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:59:45 AM by Flee


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Second amendment  used for its purpose when?
Possibly never but it's the biggest reason there will never be a holocaust in America.


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So did we give trumpf a chance yet? Is that satisfactory? Do you guys feel safe and comfortable now the "stress" of the election is over? Does all this shit that's happened since he won feel like "back to normal" for you? Democracy really is a fucking joke. Letting a bunch of barely cognizant monkeys decide which piece of shit gets to fuck us in the ass.
Service guarantees citizenship


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Well said.


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