Nation’s budget deficit falls to lowest level since Obama took office

 
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From the Washington Post.
Spoiler

Progress of a kind.

Shame it was done with higher taxes, though.


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But...but...Obummer...


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Shame it was done with higher taxes, though.

Yup, A damn shame.


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So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.


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So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.
And the Republicans introduced a plan to cut the deficit last year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/12/us-usa-fiscal-ryan-idUSBRE92B02E20130312


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.


 
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In this thread:



So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.
And the Republicans introduced a plan to cut the deficit last year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/12/us-usa-fiscal-ryan-idUSBRE92B02E20130312


That's great, but it wasn't their plan that was used to cut the defecit:

Quote
With its cuts to social programs including Medicaid, which provides healthcare for the poor and some people with disabilities, the measure will stand in stark contrast to a competing 2014 budget outline that Senate Democrats will unveil this week. That measure will rely partially on tax increases to get control of a massive government debt.

Their plan relies on cutting social programs like Medicaid - the Democrat's plan, the one currently in place and has been working, relies on higher taxes.



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In this thread:



So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.
And the Republicans introduced a plan to cut the deficit last year

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/12/us-usa-fiscal-ryan-idUSBRE92B02E20130312


That's great, but it wasn't their plan that was used to cut the defecit:

Quote
With its cuts to social programs including Medicaid, which provides healthcare for the poor and some people with disabilities, the measure will stand in stark contrast to a competing 2014 budget outline that Senate Democrats will unveil this week. That measure will rely partially on tax increases to get control of a massive government debt.

Their plan relies on cutting social programs like Medicaid - the Democrat's plan, the one currently in place and has been working, relies on higher taxes.
Your bias is showing. Shouldn't you like, stay away from that?

Higher taxes are bad, especially since they were the ones who held Congress when the economy went to shit. That's just insult to injury when you ruin the economy and demand those same people to pay more to those who oversaw it


 
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Higher taxes are bad,

Your expertise on the subject is....?


Quote
especially since they were the ones who held Congress when the economy went to shit.

So, because the Democrats held Congress when the economy went to shit, it's their fault? You just confirmed your absolute lack of economics, and understanding that the Great Recession stems from problems dating back to the 1980's - Four Presidency's worth of snowballing into the economic collapse that Bush II only created worse.

Going to argue with me about that? Let's talk some facts before you, once again, backpedal.

The Housing Market:
  • Between 1997 and 2006, the price of the typical American house increased by 124%.Source
  • This housing bubble resulted in quite a few homeowners refinancing their homes at lower interest rates, or financing consumer spending by taking out second mortgages secured by the price appreciation.
  • Easy credit, and a belief that house prices would continue to appreciate, had encouraged many subprime borrowers to obtain adjustable-rate mortgages. These mortgages enticed borrowers with a below market interest rate for some predetermined period, followed by market interest rates for the remainder of the mortgage's term. Borrowers who could not make the higher payments once the initial grace period ended would try to refinance their mortgages. Refinancing became more difficult, once house prices began to decline in many parts of the USA. Borrowers who found themselves unable to escape higher monthly payments by refinancing began to default.
  • As of August 2008, 92% of all mortgages outstanding were either delinquent or in foreclosure.Source
  • According to the IMF: Household debt soared in the years leading up to the Great Recession. In advanced economies, during the five years preceding 2007, the ratio of household debt to income rose by an average of 39 percentage points, to 138 percent. In Denmark, Iceland, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Norway, debt peaked at more than 200 percent of household income.

Risk-Taking Behavior and Debt:

  • USA household debt as a percentage of annual disposable personal income was 127% at the end of 2007, versus 77% in 1990 Source
  • U.S. home mortgage debt relative to gross domestic product (GDP) increased from an average of 46% during the 1990s to 73% during 2008, reaching $10.5 trillion Source
  • In 1981, U.S. private debt was 123% of GDP; by the third quarter of 2008, it was 290% Source
  • In order to counter the Stock Market Crash of 2000 and the subsequent economic slowdown, the Federal Reserve eased credit availability and drove interest rates down to lows not seen in many decades. These low interest rates facilitated the growth of debt at all levels of the economy, chief among them private debt to purchase more expensive housing. High levels of debt have long been recognized as a causative factor for recessions.

Government Policies:
  • In 1992, the Democratic-controlled 102nd Congress under the George H. W. Bush administration weakened regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with the goal of making available more money for the issuance of home loans.
  • In 1999, the Republican controlled 106th Congress U.S. Congress under the Clinton administration passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed part of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933. This repeal has been criticized by some for having contributed to the proliferation of the complex and opaque financial instruments which are at the heart of the crisis.Source


By the time the effects actually hit us that we had fucked up the economy, Congress could do nothing to prevent it. We all fucked up. Congress, Democrats, Republicans, Citizens, Businesses, Economists. That is the cold hard fact. Spinning this around to solely blame the party in charge is a petty, uneducated move.

Quote
That's just insult to injury when you ruin the economy and demand those same people to pay more to those who oversaw it




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>not understanding what generalizing is

I was showing how stupid it is to say Obama is the reason why the deficit has decreased by stating that Democrats were in control of Congress when the economy fell. There's more factors than a single person/group when it comes towards this

Now I just wait for your patheitc "hur demeg cuntrol" response like the biased person you are


 
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>not understanding what generalizing is

I was showing how stupid it is to say Obama is the reason why the deficit has decreased by stating that Democrats were in control of Congress when the economy fell. There's more factors than a single person/group when it comes towards this

Now I just wait for your patheitc "hur demeg puntrol" response like the biased person you are

> Presents entire post with details and sources saying why you're wrong
> "It's just a generalization, Obama didn't do anything"

Kinder, if you'd like to debate, be my guest. But actually come here prepared because at this point, unless you have some sources to back up that Democrats didn't successfully lower the deficit, you're wrong in this argument. There is a extreme difference between one party controlling Congress and the economy going to shit after twenty+ years of problems, and one party controlling Congress and enacting policies to lower a deficit.

Have a good day.
Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:14:47 PM by IcyWind


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>not understanding what generalizing is

I was showing how stupid it is to say Obama is the reason why the deficit has decreased by stating that Democrats were in control of Congress when the economy fell. There's more factors than a single person/group when it comes towards this

Now I just wait for your patheitc "hur demeg puntrol" response like the biased person you are

> Presents entire post with details and sources saying why you're wrong
> "It's just a generalization, Obama didn't do anything"

Kinder, if you'd like to debate, be my guest. But actually come here prepared because at this point, unless you have some sources to back up that Democrats didn't successfully lower the deficit, you're wrong in this argument.

Have a good day.
Lol, you're just mad you thought I was being serious. Fucking lol. Go cry some more


 
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Going to stick my neck out and disagree with Icy here.

The government was largely responsible for the Great Recession, although certain not the Congress. Tight money from the Federal Reserve turned, what would be, a minor debt issue into a fiasco through tight money and allowing nominal GDP to tank. It was essentially the same with the Great Depression; tight money causes economic contraction, which in turn reduces liquidity and creates debt crises and bank failures.

As for the supposed recklessness with banks and mortgages? That was probably due to government regulation encouraging banks to pour money into such assets, since mortgages were deemed relatively safe. It was, most likely, a case of ignorance over recklessness.
Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:18:58 PM by Meta Cognition


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ayy lmao

>not understanding what generalizing is

I was showing how stupid it is to say Obama is the reason why the deficit has decreased by stating that Democrats were in control of Congress when the economy fell. There's more factors than a single person/group when it comes towards this

Now I just wait for your patheitc "hur demeg puntrol" response like the biased person you are
a
*an

opinion discarded


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Lol, you're just mad you thought I was being serious. fracking lol. Go cry some more

This is the serious forum, no?


 
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Going to stick my neck out and disagree with Icy here.

The government was largely responsible for the Great Recession, although certain not the Congress. Tight money from the Federal Reserve caused, what would be, a minor debt issue into a fiasco through tight money and allowing nominal GDP to tank. It was essentially the same with the Great Depression; tight money causes economic contraction, which in turn reduces liquidity and creates debt crises and bank failures.

As for the supposed recklessness with banks and mortgages? That was probably due to government regulation encouraging banks to pour money into such assets, since mortgages were deemed relatively safe. It was, most likely, a case of ignorance over recklessness.

Yes, the Government does hold a responsibility. My post did not intend to make it seem as if the entire US (And other nation's) governments were not at fault, but there is more to the argument then Kinder ranting about Democrat's controlling Congress.

However, fault also comes with the banks and civilians who used the deregulations and ran with it - similar to the 1920's credit crisis that escalated the collapse for the Great Depression.


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
1920's credit crisis
Sorry, could you elaborate?

Are you referring to 1929?

Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:24:51 PM by Meta Cognition


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1920's credit crisis
Sorry, could you elaborate?
2 much borrow, 2 little monies


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Lol, you're just mad you thought I was being serious. fracking lol. Go cry some more

This is the serious forum, no?
Then why are you here?


 
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1920's credit crisis
Sorry, could you elaborate?

Staple of the American economy of the 1920's - a large chunk of people purchased a shit ton of stuff on credit, including stocks for the market, because everyone thought the period of prosperity for our economy would never end. When the Stock Market did crash, the credit bubble popped, and it helped to intensify the immediate effects for citizens because none of them had the actual money to pay off their credit debts as the banks caved.

It's not exactly identical to the problems that grew into the Great Recession, but the common factor is people biting off more then they can chew and buying extravagant things (In this case, large houses with huge mortgages) that they could never afford.
Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 02:26:54 PM by IcyWind


 
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This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper.
When the Stock Market did crash, the credit bubble popped, and it helped to intensify the immediate effects for citizens because none of them had the actual money to pay off their credit debts as the banks caved.

My argument here is that the banks' responsibility is minimal, because the Fed operated on a very tight monetary regime which allowed nominal GDP to fall dramatically. The banking crises of the Depression happened largely in the early '30s, as opposed to '29, as the banks couldn't deal with the lack of liquidity in the market.

Think of it as if the causation were reversed. The stock market crash died because the economy was suffering from a demand for money, and when the stock market did crash, it increased that demand and it just got worse and worse because the Fed didn't respond. Ben Bernanke former chairman of the Fed, has accepted this account - developed my Milton Friedman - to be factual.


 
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When the Stock Market did crash, the credit bubble popped, and it helped to intensify the immediate effects for citizens because none of them had the actual money to pay off their credit debts as the banks caved.

My argument here is that the banks' responsibility is minimal, because the Fed operated on a very tight monetary regime which allowed nominal GDP to fall dramatically. The banking crises of the Depression happened largely in the early '30s, as opposed to '29, as the banks couldn't deal with the lack of liquidity in the market.

Think of it as if the causation were reversed. The stock market crash died because the economy was suffering from a demand for money, and when the stock market did crash, it increased that demand and it just got worse and worse because the Fed didn't respond. Ben Bernanke former chairman of the Fed, has accepted this account - developed my Milton Friedman - to be factual.

I see what you mean.


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Then why are you here?

This isn't about me.


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We always say to fight fire, you must use fire. This is wrong. Fighting fire with fire will leave scars and a new flame will rise. We must instead use water. It is the opposite of fire, it extinguishes the fire, it cools, it refreshes, it heals. We are made up of 70% water, we are not made up of 70% fire. Please practice what we truly are
How did we lower our 17 Trillion deficit below the.. what was it? less than 1 trillion deficit?


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So does that mean Democrats created the recession since they had majority hold of Congress?
No. The Federal Reserve created the Recession.

Did you ever see the movie "Too Big to Fail"?

Quote
How did we lower our 17 Trillion deficit below the.. what was it? less than 1 trillion deficit?


National debt =/= budget deficit. The budget deficit is just for this year's budget.
Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 12:17:33 AM by E̲n̲g̲a̲g̲e̲d̲T̲u̲r̲k̲e̲y̲


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