More gun news: Trump & evidence for gun control

 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
People like you should really consider being more vocal in this whole debate man. I've been discussing this topic for a while now and can honestly count the number of reasonable pro-gun people I've encountered on both hands (and that includes people in real life). I'm sure it's no different on the other side but so many can't even get past basic platitudes ("criminals don't follow laws, that's why they're criminals duh") let alone actual facts, figures and research. It's damn refreshing being able to discuss these things with someone who doesn't just ignore most of the argument, dismiss high quality research as "garbage" because he doesn't like what the facts have to say, and thinks that "gun control doesn't work because place X has stricter rules but still high crime rates" is the argument that settles it all. More reason and logic might actually make an impact then for once.
It's an argument that I'm tired of having with the radical side of the 2a supporters, well, it's more like I'm tired of having to teach people how to argue for our side.
Of course Chicago has stupidly high gun crime despite draconian gun laws. you can just go outside of the city limits or a quick trip to Indiana or Wisconsin and pick up all the cool toys the city won't let you buy. Of course that one small town with mandatory ownership has next to no violent crime. A university town five miles away from me just had their first murder in 20-some years last winter. Twenty fuckin years without a murder. I don't think my town of 400 has ever had one. A few suicides, but never a murder, and we don't make people own guns. Of course you go a few miles in the other direction, towards "civilization" and urbanization and every day in Reading two people are burglarized and once a month someone is murdered.

But I do fall victim to some of the dumber arguments myself, likely because I'm sitting here in the middle of the east coast's major heroin artery and one county south of the land of "more meth labs than dogs" and it all colors my perception of federal law enforcement to be woefully inadequate at anything it does. So much so that some days I wonder if the feds themselves aren't furthering the opioid crisis for some hidden agenda.


Vegeta Wars | Posting Spree
 
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Verbatim
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You also didn't insult me, you agreed with me.
no

i am vehemently opposed to everything you've said in this thread

eat shit


 
 
Flee
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I hear you. So many null arguments that appeal to the uninformed and naive but ultimately don't stand up to any real scrutiny, and so little interest in the facts and research. I've seen literally dozens of people say something along the lines of "liberals and people who support gun control only care about emotion and not fact" while being completely clueless and blind to the actual logic and research themselves.

And this goes both ways too, of course. I've had a good amount of conversations with "antis" to get them to see things differently and abandon shoddy arguments. No, gun control isn't a magic solution to stop (gun) violence. It's just a tool. No, you can't just repeal the second amendment or ban / confiscate all firearms. Regardless of whether this is actually a good idea or not, it's completely unfeasible and impossible. No, gun regulations focusing on largely cosmetic features of firearms won't accomplish much.

It can be frustrating but I honestly think it's probably still the best way to actually get somewhere. People are so much more open to ideas put forward by "their side" and the dissonance with "the other" prevents progress from being made. The radical pro-gun guy will dismiss good points and solid evidence from the opposition because "what does some big city liberal know about guns", no matter how well informed and factual he is. Similarly, the vehemently pro gun control dude is likely to ignore valid arguments on the other side because "it's not as if some gun toting redneck would really understand". More reasonable and better educated people from either side are better equipped to help their own camp reach a more informed and factual conclusion than "the other" is.


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Verbatim
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Regardless, that still was not insulting.
that doesn't mean it wasn't an insult


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
More reasonable and better educated people from either side are better equipped to help their own camp reach a more informed and factual conclusion than "the other" is.
To some degree, sure, but then there's the fact that we're just seen as "compromisers" or "false supporters" by the rest of our side.

And really, I can fully understand the law-abiding gun owners not wanting to give a single inch more. The entire history of gun legislation and "compromise" on the subject is simply "Okay, we'll let you keep x in exchange for giving up y" or sometimes flat out "you lost popular support so we're taking away z and not giving you any consolation." and after enough of that, why wouldn't the old guys of the party dig their trenches and say "no fucking more, no matter what"


Dietrich Six | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Excuse me, I'm full of dog poison
en masse


Dietrich Six | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Excuse me, I'm full of dog poison
More reasonable and better educated people from either side are better equipped to help their own camp reach a more informed and factual conclusion than "the other" is.
To some degree, sure, but then there's the fact that we're just seen as "compromisers" or "false supporters" by the rest of our side.

And really, I can fully understand the law-abiding gun owners not wanting to give a single inch more. The entire history of gun legislation and "compromise" on the subject is simply "Okay, we'll let you keep x in exchange for giving up y" or sometimes flat out "you lost popular support so we're taking away z and not giving you any consolation." and after enough of that, why wouldn't the old guys of the party dig their trenches and say "no fucking more, no matter what"

They took the mateba from me, I will not compromise any further.


 
DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
More reasonable and better educated people from either side are better equipped to help their own camp reach a more informed and factual conclusion than "the other" is.
To some degree, sure, but then there's the fact that we're just seen as "compromisers" or "false supporters" by the rest of our side.

And really, I can fully understand the law-abiding gun owners not wanting to give a single inch more. The entire history of gun legislation and "compromise" on the subject is simply "Okay, we'll let you keep x in exchange for giving up y" or sometimes flat out "you lost popular support so we're taking away z and not giving you any consolation." and after enough of that, why wouldn't the old guys of the party dig their trenches and say "no fucking more, no matter what"

They took the mateba from me, I will not compromise any further.
I mean you have the chiappa rhino, isn't that good enough?


Dietrich Six | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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Excuse me, I'm full of dog poison
More reasonable and better educated people from either side are better equipped to help their own camp reach a more informed and factual conclusion than "the other" is.
To some degree, sure, but then there's the fact that we're just seen as "compromisers" or "false supporters" by the rest of our side.

And really, I can fully understand the law-abiding gun owners not wanting to give a single inch more. The entire history of gun legislation and "compromise" on the subject is simply "Okay, we'll let you keep x in exchange for giving up y" or sometimes flat out "you lost popular support so we're taking away z and not giving you any consolation." and after enough of that, why wouldn't the old guys of the party dig their trenches and say "no fucking more, no matter what"

They took the mateba from me, I will not compromise any further.
I mean you have the chiappa rhino, isn't that good enough?

I think you know it's not.


 
 
Flee
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Are you just going to continue to ignore the evidence and the points I make while moving the goalposts and becoming less coherent? Nothing you've said has shown much common sense or managed to stand up to scrutiny. You started by saying gun control doesn't work and only increases crime. I pointed out the flaws in your sources, provided facts and statistics to the contrary, and linked you lots of solid research directly refuting every claim you made about crime in Chicago / Kennesaw, defensive gun use and gang violence. You ignored all of this and instead asked the strange question of why the century-long crime capital of the country has more gun violence than the areas around it. Still, I gave you a detailed response and provided even more evidence contrary to your initial arguments. At that point, you tried and failed to discredit high quality sources and pretend that your anonymous blogger and shoddy opinion piece are as valid as peer reviewed and published studies, global think tanks, governmental institutions and longstanding research projects from universities like Yale and UChicago. That's where we're at right now. You have yet to make a single good argument and I have countered or refuted every last one of your points. I'm not sure if you just don't understand how to have a debate or are just so biased that no hard facts or common sense will ever matter, but you really have failed at making any sort of decent case against gun control or back up your original points.

People that want to kill are significantly better at doing so with the easy access to some of the most deadly weapons we have available to us. Gun control is not the same as prohibition. The case in favor of defensive gun use is flimsy at best and the very situation that gives people the guns to defend themselves also gives criminals firearms to use for crime and for others to misuse. Bombs are actually relatively bad tools for committing the types of massacres we're seeing in the US as clearly evidenced by the lack of mass bombings in recent history. Bombs are dangerous to the user, can be used in a lot less circumstances, aren't flexible and are difficult to use effectively, and take a good amount of skill to properly make. A gun on the other hand only requires you to point it at someone and pull the trigger. Not all mass shooters were on psychiatric drugs and you're going off into conspiracy theory ramblings by insisting that it's the government pushing them on people. Mass shooters do not only target gun free zones (this has been extensively researched with no convincing evidence for your claim and several counters to it) and FBI research has demonstrated they tend to attack places of relevance or close proximity with zero regard for gun rules. The idea that the Aurora Shooter picked the theater because it didn't allow guns has already been refuted.

Come on now dude. There's almost no rhyme or reason to what you say and half of it is verifiably incorrect or heavily contested. You make a generally poor and uninformed point, I refute it and provide evidence and facts to the contrary, and then you just ignore that you've just been proven wrong or provided with counter-points and just make another random claim as if nothing happened. That's not how this works and it's pretty delusional that you keep telling others to have common sense or look at the variables when you can't even follow through on a simple debate without ignoring facts and just desperately throwing random points at me in the hopes that one will stick.


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Thank God we have people like Alex Jones who are defending their 2nd and 1st amendment with their blood.


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TBlocks
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#13
HAHAHAHA!


 
Verbatim
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HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 01:14:29 PM by Shhhhhh


Fedorekd | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I love you, son.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


 
 
Flee
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You are the worst kind of person in a debate, you just close your ears and scream you won, when the evidence proves otherwise.
Yeah, you're just a troll. Figured this was the case from your first point but didn't want to at least give you a fair chance to see if the stupidity cleared up a bit. Guess I was wrong.

Spoiler
HAHAHAHAHAHA!


 
 
Flee
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Hahahahaha!
Please capitalize your hahahahaha!'s. You're not really showing us all just how funny you think this is otherwise.


Vegeta Wars | Posting Spree
 
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TBlocks
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#13
You are the worst kind of person in a debate, you just close your ears and scream you won, when the evidence proves otherwise.
Yeah, you're just a troll. Figured this was the case from your first point but didn't want to at least give you a fair chance to see if the stupidity cleared up a bit. Guess I was wrong.

Spoiler
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

The only stupidity I see here is yours. You are right about you being wrong, though.
Put that mirror down! HAHAHAHA!


Vegeta Wars | Posting Spree
 
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Verbatim
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You are the worst kind of person in a debate, you just close your ears and scream you won, when the evidence proves otherwise.
Yeah, you're just a troll. Figured this was the case from your first point but didn't want to at least give you a fair chance to see if the stupidity cleared up a bit. Guess I was wrong.

Spoiler
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
The only stupidity I see here is yours. You are right about you being wrong, though.
you forgot to bring up that you were an elf on everquest or whatever


Vegeta Wars | Posting Spree
 
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DAS B00T x2
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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
This is the serious forum


 
Verbatim
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so yeah

trump backing gun control policy at this stage is the equivalent of a wife beater handing over a lollipop to his wife after beating and/or raping her for over a year


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Verbatim
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so yeah

trump backing gun control policy at this stage is the equivalent of a wife beater handing over a lollipop to his wife after beating and/or raping her for over a year
It's especially why I am glad I didn't waste my time voting for him like an idiot. I hated him when literally minutes after winning he made a speech kissing Hillary's butt. He promised us he would lock that criminal up, one of the main points of his entire campaign. He literally TOLD US she would be in jail if he were president. He was a liar just like the rest of them. He promised us more firearm freedom and is as big of a flip-flop as Barack. They should all be in prison.
i'm genuinely surprised you're not a trumpet yourself


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