How do YOU judge America?

Flee · December 19, 2015, 06:06:42 AM

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More Than Mortal · December 19, 2015, 08:35:23 AM

Quote from: Flee on December 19, 2015, 06:06:42 AM

but I've never met any "liberal" who thinks of the US as nothing but a terrible country and an exceptionally shameful display of humanity.

Like Howard Zinn mentioned in the video, they're probably talking about people like Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky. But no, you're average American liberal probably doesn't think that.

Flee · December 19, 2015, 08:54:28 AM

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Pippen · December 19, 2015, 09:35:56 AM

'Murica

...oh wait this is Serious, damnit I have to be contributing...

Uuuh, while I do live in the USA, I won't lie it definitely isn't the greatest place to live. Not some paradise where you can always live happily. However to see it is the worst country is faaaaar from right.
While there is a lot of horrible people who call themselves Politicians, drive down a friendly neighborhood in the US or visit LA or New York and you can see what makes this place just as good as the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.

Sandtrap · December 19, 2015, 06:37:40 PM

Your government is laughable. Which is saying something considering most governments these days. The rampant consumerism is off the handle. The patriotism can get a little overbearing and it's a stick up the ass that needs to be pulled out every now and again.

And there's dumb people. Then again, you get a lot of those wherever you go anyway. There's some "freedoms" you've got that my country or a lot of outher countries in the world don't. But there's some whopping big-time shortcomings too.

It's a messy, messy state right now. And I'm just gonna sit here and watch it all unfold cause I can't do anything else.

More Than Mortal · December 19, 2015, 06:56:31 PM

Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 06:37:40 PM

Your government is laughable.

Sandtrap · December 19, 2015, 07:05:15 PM

Quote from: Metty Christmas on December 19, 2015, 06:56:31 PM

Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 06:37:40 PM
Your government is laughable.

I didn't say mine wasn't either. America's takes the cake though, you gotta admit.

More Than Mortal · December 19, 2015, 07:07:41 PM

Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 07:05:15 PM

America's takes the cake though, you gotta admit.

Sure, but given the numerous levels of government, the size of the country and the myriad of bureaucracies I think it functions better than most other countries would when put in a similar situation.

It's insanity, which I admit is there, is probably massively amplified because it's the side of the government constantly in the public sphere. If Donald Trump was just some suit at the IRS it wouldn't matter in the slightest.

Super Irish · December 20, 2015, 08:00:36 AM

It's inefficient, has a history of doing good things and bad things... but who hasn't?

You compare countries by their present values. I could easily say America would be a better choice to live than Somalia for a whole variety of reasons, and probably a few compared to Russia or India.

HDI is a wonderful statistic that can quantify the present value of countries that can be used for a quick spot judgement if you acknowledge it's flaws for qualitative data.

Luciana · December 20, 2015, 12:48:46 PM

Quote from: Brian Butterfield on December 20, 2015, 08:00:36 AM

It's inefficient, has a history of doing good things and bad things... but who hasn't?

You compare countries by their present values. I could easily say America would be a better choice to live than Somalia for a whole variety of reasons, and probably a few compared to Russia or India.

HDI is a wonderful statistic that can quantify the present value of countries that can be used for a quick spot judgement if you acknowledge it's flaws for qualitative data.

Why are you comparing it to shit countries instead of like, any of the other western nations, and even Canada right above us? The US then suddenly doesn't look as great, but when you talk about Somalia in comparison? Sure.

More Than Mortal · December 20, 2015, 12:54:59 PM

Quote from: Luciana on December 20, 2015, 12:48:46 PM

Quote from: Brian Butterfield on December 20, 2015, 08:00:36 AM
It's inefficient, has a history of doing good things and bad things... but who hasn't?

You compare countries by their present values. I could easily say America would be a better choice to live than Somalia for a whole variety of reasons, and probably a few compared to Russia or India.

HDI is a wonderful statistic that can quantify the present value of countries that can be used for a quick spot judgement if you acknowledge it's flaws for qualitative data.
Why are you comparing it to shit countries instead of like, any of the other western nations, and even Canada right above us? The US then suddenly doesn't look as great, but when you talk about Somalia in comparison? Sure.

The Western world cannot be proud it isn't a shit hole? By global standards, it's a pretty big accomplishment. . .

Luciana · December 20, 2015, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: Metty Christmas on December 20, 2015, 12:54:59 PM

Quote from: Luciana on December 20, 2015, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: Brian Butterfield on December 20, 2015, 08:00:36 AM
It's inefficient, has a history of doing good things and bad things... but who hasn't?

You compare countries by their present values. I could easily say America would be a better choice to live than Somalia for a whole variety of reasons, and probably a few compared to Russia or India.

HDI is a wonderful statistic that can quantify the present value of countries that can be used for a quick spot judgement if you acknowledge it's flaws for qualitative data.
Why are you comparing it to shit countries instead of like, any of the other western nations, and even Canada right above us? The US then suddenly doesn't look as great, but when you talk about Somalia in comparison? Sure.
The Western world cannot be proud it isn't a shit hole? By global standards, it's a pretty big accomplishment. . .

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm saying you can make the US sound like the pinnacle of society by comparing it to any country in Africa. But when you actually compare it to countries that are just as successful and well off as the US, the US suddenly doesn't have that "American exceptionalism" that people think makes the US better than any country for whatever reason.

challengerX · December 20, 2015, 02:58:48 PM

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Genghis Khan · December 20, 2015, 03:37:08 PM

America's not for me but I can understand people who like it.

Super Irish · December 20, 2015, 04:21:22 PM

Quote from: Luciana on December 20, 2015, 01:35:25 PM

Quote from: Metty Christmas on December 20, 2015, 12:54:59 PM
Quote from: Luciana on December 20, 2015, 12:48:46 PM
Quote from: Brian Butterfield on December 20, 2015, 08:00:36 AM
It's inefficient, has a history of doing good things and bad things... but who hasn't?

You compare countries by their present values. I could easily say America would be a better choice to live than Somalia for a whole variety of reasons, and probably a few compared to Russia or India.

HDI is a wonderful statistic that can quantify the present value of countries that can be used for a quick spot judgement if you acknowledge it's flaws for qualitative data.
Why are you comparing it to shit countries instead of like, any of the other western nations, and even Canada right above us? The US then suddenly doesn't look as great, but when you talk about Somalia in comparison? Sure.
The Western world cannot be proud it isn't a shit hole? By global standards, it's a pretty big accomplishment. . .
You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm saying you can make the US sound like the pinnacle of society by comparing it to any country in Africa. But when you actually compare it to countries that are just as successful and well off as the US, the US suddenly doesn't have that "American exceptionalism" that people think makes the US better than any country for whatever reason.

I just chose those countries to accentuate my point, I could've chosen more closer ones but then the difference wouldn't be so obvious. The US may be considered a great country but it is no better than other Western countries.

And I can't say Norway because using HDI, it's an objectively better country. And I hate using that word.

Cadenza has moved on · December 20, 2015, 05:49:34 PM

That was a more agreeable video than the last PragerU, but I don't see the two views presented as being completely exclusive. You can accept America's greatness and flaws at the same time, you'd be lying to yourself if you didn't. I don't think America ever has been the greatest country in the world but that it has the capacity to do so; you have the resources, technology, population, and culture that would allow you to be the best, but from the outside it looks like you lack an overall purpose and are tied up by too much bureaucracy.

The Apollo/Gemini/Mercury programs sums up my thoughts: For it to even be possible you need a very wealthy and industrialized country, you need a strong sense of identity and technology to be opposed to the Communist world, you need people that can look into the future and say "this is what's possible if we try" in order for a space program to be seriously considered, you need the support of most of the nation to really justify shooting people into space and then to the goddamn moon, you need a lot of determination to keep trying after failing behind the Communists and having your rockets blow up and your astronauts burn to death on the ground, you need engineering brilliance for it all to work, you need fucking passion.

Everything needed to make the space race possible and to win it, is what makes America great; And today most Americans don't give a damn about it, especially compared to Hollywood, that's the problem.

Luciana · December 20, 2015, 06:51:39 PM

Quote from: Jackadenza Frost on December 20, 2015, 05:49:34 PM

Everything needed to make the space race possible and to win it, is what makes America great; And today most Americans don't give a damn about it, especially compared to Hollywood, that's the problem.

Probably because the Cold War is over so the space race isn't a thing now. It was a political thing and that was it. They should be passionate, but no one is since there is no objective other than really getting to Mars, but we're not gonna pour tons of money into it because we're not racing for it.

PSU · December 21, 2015, 11:00:01 AM

As the best damn country in the world.