Mandatory military conscription

Not Comms Officer · April 30, 2015, 12:46:53 AM

Mandatory military conscription often meaning that once you turn 18, men have to serve in the country's Armed Forces for a certain duration (usually 18 months). Typically, one can be exempted from having to serve in the Armed Forces by either being in University, having permanent residence in a foreign country, or having some sort of health issue.

I'm asking this question since I'm finally nearing the end of the process of getting an exemption from being forced to serve in the Greek Armed Forces. Well, it's not like they'd even force me to join at this point given their current financial situation, but still.

But my stance towards conscription is neutral because you can be exempted from it if you're in university. But I honestly don't know enough about it to serious want to push others into serving for a country they may not wish to serve, which is something that should never be forced on people.

Nick McIntyre · April 30, 2015, 12:50:42 AM

Probably the only thing from Israel that I'll ever agree with. It gives your civilian populace proper military training and to be prepared for any kind of military incident.

Forgewolf · April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM

I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · April 30, 2015, 12:57:19 AM

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Not Comms Officer · April 30, 2015, 01:03:06 AM

Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM

I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!

It's not as great as it sounds, believe me.

And by all people, do you mean people going to university as well? Cause taking people out on University and forcing them into the Army is unbelievably stupid.

Camnator · April 30, 2015, 01:03:41 AM

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Sylvie · April 30, 2015, 04:18:21 AM

It's bad.

Mordo · April 30, 2015, 04:51:13 AM

Completely unethical and a massive infringement on individual autonomy.

I also find it kind of funny when all the slavshit and Middle Eastern countries have mandatory conscription, and yet, virtually none of the Western military powerhouses do. Speaks wonders about its effectiveness really.

More Than Mortal · April 30, 2015, 05:31:34 AM

Unethical.

Although I agree with Milton Friedman that mandatory military training in preparation for potential war could be reasonably justified.

Isara · April 30, 2015, 05:55:26 AM

In Greece, a country that borders with so many regions it seems ineffective. There are too many bases, and despite the amount of men who are put into mandatory service, those bases are still mostly empty. A modern country needs a professional army, not a bunch of weekend temporary soldiers.

Also, the role of indoctrinating people into society has been mostly replaced by higher education such as technical schools and universities that further show how this system is obsolete when you have near-30-year old conscripts spending nine months in an empty military base on some mountain.

It's not unethical, but it lacks any fundamental need besides a waste of resources, money which lead to the manipulation of statistics (conscripts don't appear as unemployed) and semi-free human resources for the military. (In Greece, conscripts get paid 10 Euros per month, regardless of their duties, but it might vary on current family status; e.g. number of children and age in family, dead parents and similar things)

There are also suicides committed during conscription, but those are largely underplayed by the media, and sometimes completely covered and forgotten. Some conscripts also are concerned about poor sanitation (instances of a random conscript with no training being selected as paramedic and injecting people without the skill or know-how, or cases of using the same needle on multiple soldiers)

Isara · April 30, 2015, 06:04:43 AM

They will force you to join if you don't show up when the exemption is complete. (You get an exemption for the requested duration, and you are expected to show up at the given date, and the biggest exemption is up to eight years) Unless you leave the country, you might get the MP knock at your door and take you to a military court. Usually you end up staying a couple of years as a conscript. If you leave the country then you are listed as a deserter-- and it's better that you don't step in the country again.

And that's how the system works for Greeks, it might be different for non-natives moving to Greece, but I don't know the details there. I am quite sure that they don't really want to advertise the draconian conscription to someone who is moving in the country.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 30, 2015, 12:46:53 AM

I'm asking this question since I'm finally nearing the end of the process of getting an exemption from being forced to serve in the Greek Armed Forces. Well, it's not like they'd even force me to join at this point given their current financial situation, but still.

Oh · April 30, 2015, 07:11:57 AM

I'd hate it because it's simply a waste of time for me.
I have no interest in joining the military, and it would just waste 2 years of my life.
Although I'm at uni, so I guess I'd get out of it.

Magos Domina · April 30, 2015, 07:30:31 AM

It's bloody stupid. If the UK ever adopts conscription (and they wont) Then I'm fucking off to Ireland.

DAS B00T x2 · April 30, 2015, 07:38:41 AM

Not a fan of the idea. In America it would be pointless and a waste of military spending. Besides, the lifestyle really isn't for everyone. I can only imagine TRADOC suicides/self injuries going up in rate if we force everyone into service.

Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM

I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!

I find more pride in having an entirely volunteer military than one of conscripts and draftees.

gats · April 30, 2015, 07:55:01 AM

Nah the military isn't for everyone
we can't really label our countries as free and democratic if we're forcing people into it

Naoto · April 30, 2015, 07:57:45 AM

Depends on the country and situation.

U.S. Military is over manned atm. Wouldn't make much sense to force people in when they're kicking people out. If you're looking at a situation like world war 2 or are modern South Korea / Israel then ya you probably need mandatory conscription.

Turkey · April 30, 2015, 08:08:29 AM

Completely unnecessary and unethical in America today. For a smaller country that is in a dangerous area and they need a larger population of citizens ready to fight, then sure. Israel is a good example of this.

CK97 · April 30, 2015, 09:19:37 AM

Unethical.

maverick · April 30, 2015, 10:15:08 AM

Extremely stupid and pointless in a place like modern America. I've never seen any legitimate points for this idea. If we recruited everyone when they turn 18, and they served for two years, it would increase our current military size by 5x. I couldn't imagine how we'd ever account for the costs of paying all these people and still maintain quality military conditions and equipment. Also, I would imagine a military composed of kids that don't want to be there would be a problem.

big sponge · April 30, 2015, 01:21:52 PM

Considering most modern first world militaries and civilian populations don't even want conscription I'm pretty certain that it would be a bad deal for everyone involved.

Genghis Khan · April 30, 2015, 04:55:43 PM

It's good. Finland would be long gone if it wasn't for it.

Not Comms Officer · April 30, 2015, 05:17:26 PM

Quote from: Isara on April 30, 2015, 06:04:43 AM

They will force you to join if you don't show up when the exemption is complete. (You get an exemption for the requested duration, and you are expected to show up at the given date, and the biggest exemption is up to eight years) Unless you leave the country, you might get the MP knock at your door and take you to a military court. Usually you end up staying a couple of years as a conscript. If you leave the country then you are listed as a deserter-- and it's better that you don't step in the country again.

And that's how the system works for Greeks, it might be different for non-natives moving to Greece, but I don't know the details there. I am quite sure that they don't really want to advertise the draconian conscription to someone who is moving in the country.

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on April 30, 2015, 12:46:53 AM
I'm asking this question since I'm finally nearing the end of the process of getting an exemption from being forced to serve in the Greek Armed Forces. Well, it's not like they'd even force me to join at this point given their current financial situation, but still.

Weird. Cause the exemption that I'm applying for (and am about to get) seems to be permanent. It sounds like that the rules are different for Greek citizens living in foreign countries than it is for Greek citizens living in Greece. Cause everyone I've talked to in Greece about the conscription either said that you can't get exemptions, or exemptions are only temporary.

Incan · May 01, 2015, 08:11:23 AM

It's better to have 10 people who want to be there, rather then a 100 who don't,

Girl of Mystery · May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM

Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM

I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!

lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

Chakas · May 04, 2015, 09:22:49 AM

I don't think it's a good idea. Not unless there would be some sort of comprehensive mental stability test. There are too many crazy people out there. I don't want to give them military training and access to weapons. What I would support would be government funded, free firearms safety courses. Something that people could go to for free to learn the basics about gun safety, even if they're against guns. I think it'd be worth it in the long run. A lot less accidental deaths that way.

aREALgod · May 04, 2015, 09:32:27 AM

Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM

Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM
I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!
lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

You're just mad your military is a pussified shithole compared to ours

Not Comms Officer · May 04, 2015, 06:08:50 PM

Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:32:27 AM

Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM
I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!
lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

You're just mad your military is a pussified shithole compared to ours

>thinking that military size is relevant to anything

>being this patriotic

Girl of Mystery · May 04, 2015, 06:10:11 PM

Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:32:27 AM

Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM
I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!
lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

You're just mad your military is a pussified shithole compared to ours

What has that got to do with mandatory service being retarded?

Not Comms Officer · May 04, 2015, 06:13:36 PM

Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 04, 2015, 06:10:11 PM

Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:32:27 AM
Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM
I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!
lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

You're just mad your military is a pussified shithole compared to ours
What has that got to do with mandatory service being retarded?

He's a troll.

aREALgod · May 04, 2015, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: Not Comms Officer on May 04, 2015, 06:13:36 PM

Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 04, 2015, 06:10:11 PM
Quote from: ////\\\\ on May 04, 2015, 09:32:27 AM
Quote from: Lemön | penisetarian on May 01, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
Quote from: Forgewolf on April 30, 2015, 12:55:12 AM
I believe ALL able, body people of the age 18 should be required two years of military service. After that, they may continue, be on reserve or quit.

America takes so much pride in their military, yet it baffles me we still don't do this!
lol
For starters it's completely unethical and incredibly stupid.
America's military is already overcrowded and overspending as it is. It's poinless, and a waste of time and money.

You're too patriotic and prideful for your own good, because it makes you think dumb shit like this.

You're just mad your military is a pussified shithole compared to ours
What has that got to do with mandatory service being retarded?
He's a troll.

Oh the irony.

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Mandatory military conscription