And like I said, I'm not denying that gender identity is biologically driven. I'm saying the psychological damage people experience from it is largely, if not entirely due to social norms regarding gender roles and what is/what isn't normal.
Well, no, I don't necessarily think social climate is the cause of gender dysphoria. But I do think it's the cause of the detrimental aspects.
Is an incongruity between what you desire to experience from your body (in a sexual manner for example) and what you are capable of experiencing not detrimental to someone's mental health? Is an innate inability to satisfy one's own sexuality not a serious issue not caused by social pressures?
Transgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.
as I've said in bungle, transgender does not exist because gender does not exist.
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUY
Quote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?
Quote from: thepanzieman on July 05, 2015, 11:33:38 PMas I've said in bungle, transgender does not exist because gender does not exist.But it does.Gender roles are more of a social construct at this point, but gender is a physical construct that affects the chemical makeup of the brain.
Quote from: DAS B00T WILL RISE AGAIN on July 05, 2015, 11:40:54 PMQuote from: thepanzieman on July 05, 2015, 11:33:38 PMas I've said in bungle, transgender does not exist because gender does not exist.But it does.Gender roles are more of a social construct at this point, but gender is a physical construct that affects the chemical makeup of the brain.I don't consider the physical makeup of the brain to be separate from the body, because the brain is in fact part of the body.thus, "gender" is only a small part of the whole that is "sex"
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.
Quote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot.
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOL
Quote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?
Quote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:58:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?Both.
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:04:40 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:58:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?Both.Then you're fucking wrong.
Quote from: Mad Max on July 06, 2015, 12:05:41 AMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:04:40 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:58:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?Both.Then you're fucking wrong.That's why transgender people struggle with depression, right? That's why it's completely normal and "natural", right?You're fucking stupid AND wrong.
Quote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:09:25 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 06, 2015, 12:05:41 AMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:04:40 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:58:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?Both.Then you're fucking wrong.That's why transgender people struggle with depression, right? That's why it's completely normal and "natural", right?You're fucking stupid AND wrong.Who said something natural was always happiness and rainbows and sunshine?
Quote from: Mad Max on July 06, 2015, 12:10:27 AMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:09:25 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 06, 2015, 12:05:41 AMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 06, 2015, 12:04:40 AMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:58:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:57:40 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:54:58 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:53:52 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:44:35 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 11:41:56 PMQuote from: Mad Max on July 05, 2015, 11:37:16 PMQuote from: SHAWN BEEN on July 05, 2015, 05:51:09 PMTransgenderism is not normal. It's the opposite of normal, something's in fact very wrong with it.LOL THIS FUCKING GUYOh, so it's completely normal and not an issue at all?Yeah, if you're not an ignorant asshole.Nah, if you're an ignorant asshole you just let them suffer with dysphoria instead of being honest about it and trying to solve it. Yes, cuddle their feelings so they can suffer a little less than finding an outright cure.Fucking idiot."cure"THIS FUCKING GUYLOLYeah. Having your biological wiring fucked up is not normal, and you're lying to yourself if you think it is. If it would be normal for nature to make males who want to be females and vice versa, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But that's not the case, is it?Please define your use of "normal"do you mean "occurring in a majority of people" or do you mean "occurring naturally"?Both.Then you're fucking wrong.That's why transgender people struggle with depression, right? That's why it's completely normal and "natural", right?You're fucking stupid AND wrong.Who said something natural was always happiness and rainbows and sunshine?Hm, I guess terrible diseases are okay and normal, too. Ya know, like Harlequin-type ichthyosis. Yeah, we shouldn't look for a cure or solution for that at ALL
Just, well, you know. Something small here.A quick question. What would you call a normal human being? Can you give me a very strict and refined set of parameters that fill this portion of "normal" on the meter?
Here's the thing. You can change the body to suit the mind, but you can't change the mind to suit the body. You can cure dysphoria and have a perfectly normal, happy and functioning individual.
Quote from: Sandtrap on July 06, 2015, 12:16:55 AMJust, well, you know. Something small here.A quick question. What would you call a normal human being? Can you give me a very strict and refined set of parameters that fill this portion of "normal" on the meter?Straight, white, Christian male. Duh.
Let's get something straight.
