David Cameron and the Tories are ready for class war

More Than Mortal · May 15, 2015, 03:04:42 PM

YouTube

I really don't get this bullshit. I know the rap was probably made in jest, but there are people out there who will watch this and go "Yes, that is exactly what the Tories are". And, the funny thing is, this comes almost entirely from the Left. It's what Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and fuck-nuggets like Russell Brand all seem to think: the Conservatives are a party of psychopaths who just want to crush the workers.

There's a difference between complaining about undue influence within parties (I, for instance, complain about unions' grip over Labour), but to actually try and cast them as malicious. I honestly never see this coming from Conservatives, at least in the UK.

I'm inclined to think it stems from identity politics, and this quest for social justice they seem so enamoured with. Anybody who doesn't agree is obviously evil, and anybody who pursues policies who go against your intuition are oppressors of the poor and minorities and whoever the fuck else you want to cast in there with them.

The worst I called Ed Miliband during the election was incompetent. One instance where I accused him of being sly was when he refused to call his house a mansion, despite the fact that it would fall under the "mansion tax". But I don't cast him as malicious or evil or engaged in some actively immoral practices.

Mr. Psychologist · May 15, 2015, 03:17:57 PM

I think that's looking into it a little too deeply though, it's poking fun at the stereotype of the evil bloodsucking tory rather than going 'David Cameron is actually eating children at the weekends'

And I'd say you see the same shit on both sides to an extent, the endless coverage of milibum looking like a twonk whilst eating that bacon sandwich for example. Or Nick Clegg's 'I'm Sorry' remix. The party in power is the one that gets the most flak/parodies, when Bliar was in power people were laying into his bullshit with just as much vigour.

More Than Mortal · May 15, 2015, 03:28:24 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:17:57 PM

I think that's looking into it a little too deeply though, it's poking fun at the stereotype of the evil bloodsucking tory rather than going 'David Cameron is actually eating children at the weekends'

And I'd say you see the same shit on both sides to an extent, the endless coverage of milibum looking like a twonk whilst eating that bacon sandwich for example. Or Nick Clegg's 'I'm Sorry' remix. The party in power is the one that gets the most flak/parodies, when Bliar was in power people were laying into his bullshit with just as much vigour.

But the point is some people do actually think the Tories are bloodsuckers. It's not that they just think their policies aren't beneficial, they actually think them intentionally malicious. Making fun of Miliband, Clegg or Blair is different; two got shafted for looking either incompetent or untrustworthy, and the other was shafted for being a fucking showman. But, in most instances, the whole parties they were part of were not cast in the same light and those criticisms are all valid.

I mean, come on, when's the last time people injured police officers or put graffiti on a war memorial because they didn't like Labour or the Liberal Democrats.

Mr. Psychologist · May 15, 2015, 03:45:13 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 15, 2015, 03:28:24 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:17:57 PM
I think that's looking into it a little too deeply though, it's poking fun at the stereotype of the evil bloodsucking tory rather than going 'David Cameron is actually eating children at the weekends'

And I'd say you see the same shit on both sides to an extent, the endless coverage of milibum looking like a twonk whilst eating that bacon sandwich for example. Or Nick Clegg's 'I'm Sorry' remix. The party in power is the one that gets the most flak/parodies, when Bliar was in power people were laying into his bullshit with just as much vigour.
But the point is some people do actually think the Tories are bloodsuckers. It's not that they just think their policies aren't beneficial, they actually think them intentionally malicious. Making fun of Miliband, Clegg or Blair is different; two got shafted for looking either incompetent or untrustworthy, and the other was shafted for being a fucking showman. But, in most instances, the whole parties they were part of were not cast in the same light and those criticisms are all valid.

I mean, come on, when's the last time people injured police officers or put graffiti on a war memorial because they didn't like Labour or the Liberal Democrats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11877034

5 years ago thereabouts, a bunch of students acted like chimps over the tuition fee rise. I'd say a fair amount of them were pissed at the libdems for either lying or kotowing to the tory demand.

In terms of the malice though, it's not hard to see why people might think that given how ATOS treated the disabled courtesy of IDS's disability 'reforms' or how there has been a vast increase in the number of people needing to use foodbanks, or how the sale of royal mail went. It's not all just 'ayy the evul tories mate, they tryna take the milk from the babies' cause they already did that way back when under thatcher lol.

The people making cuts are nearly always unpopular, which is to be expected really, the idea that they are doing it as a bunch of self serving slimy little shits tends to stem part from the boogeyman and part from them actually doing it.

More Than Mortal · May 15, 2015, 03:54:03 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:45:13 PM

ATOS

Yeah, IDS is a fucking scumbag. Not even going to try and defend him, there.

Quote

there has been a vast increase in the number of people needing to use foodbanks

What's the problem? Is it bad that people can voluntarily pull together after the greatest recession in our country's history? Not to mention, the amount of people on foodbanks is something like 1.5pc of the population for an average of 3 days each.

Quote

or how the sale of royal mail went.

It went fine; it's ridiculously hard to value a company "properly" which has never traded privately or needed to attract private capital.

Mr. Psychologist · May 15, 2015, 03:58:51 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 15, 2015, 03:54:03 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:45:13 PM
ATOS
Yeah, IDS is a fucking scumbag. Not even going to try and defend him, there.

Good good, I would have been quite worried if you did <.<

Quote

Quote
there has been a vast increase in the number of people needing to use foodbanks
What's the problem? Is it bad that people can voluntarily pull together after the greatest recession in our country's history? Not to mention, the amount of people on foodbanks is something like 1.5pc of the population for an average of 3 days each.

That's one way to spin it, I'm not saying it's the end of days and the great depression all over again, but it's not really great for the government of a country to be implementing policies that result in the population going hungry. Expecting charities to pick up the pieces isn't something that I would say is responsible governance.

If at the end of it all the population is back in work and no longer starving, sure that's perhaps grounds to justify the means but it's not one I'd be too quick to accept as right.

Quote

Quote
or how the sale of royal mail went.
It went fine; it's ridiculously hard to value a company "properly" which has never traded privately or needed to attract private capital.

That's not the issue though, the valuation storm in a teacup distracts from the more important point of preferred investory status being given to groups that have ties to the governing party. Even if it's not technically corruption, it still reeks of it and does nothing to dismiss the 'looking out for your pals' image that the tories have.

More Than Mortal · May 15, 2015, 04:02:57 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:58:51 PM

but it's not really great for the government of a country to be implementing policies that result in the population going hungry.

I agree, but it seems like more of a function of an incredibly unwieldy welfare system that has been added to constantly since the premier of Lloyd George. Take Universal Credit, for example, it's a good idea that falls flat on its fucking face because piecemeal reforms to a complicated system don't work.

But, of course, I'm not claiming the Tories are without malicious idiots. I don't know whether IDS is malicious, or just an idiot, but when people like Edwina Currie say that individuals who use food banks also waste their money on tattoos and dog food there's clearly an issue. But it's the individuals at fault, not some imaginary ethos of the whole party.

Quote

Even if it's not technically corruption, it still reeks of it and does nothing to dismiss the 'looking out for your pals' image that the tories have.

To be honest, I don't really know enough about the sale itself to comment so I'll have to read up on it further.

Mr. Psychologist · May 15, 2015, 04:10:31 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 15, 2015, 04:02:57 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 03:58:51 PM
but it's not really great for the government of a country to be implementing policies that result in the population going hungry.
I agree, but it seems like more of a function of an incredibly unwieldy welfare system that has been added to constantly since the premier of Lloyd George. Take Universal Credit, for example, it's a good idea that falls flat on its fucking face because piecemeal reforms to a complicated system don't work.

But, of course, I'm not claiming the Tories are without malicious idiots. I don't know whether IDS is malicious, or just an idiot, but when people like Edwina Currie say that individuals who use food banks also waste their money on tattoos and dog food there's clearly an issue. But it's the individuals at fault, not some imaginary ethos of the whole party.

Quote
Even if it's not technically corruption, it still reeks of it and does nothing to dismiss the 'looking out for your pals' image that the tories have.
To be honest, I don't really know enough about the sale itself to comment so I'll have to read up on it further.

Indeed, there are some truly unpleasant tories and plenty of more than respectable ones.
Two smaller calibre examples are the MP for my constituency and the MP for my grandparent's one.

Mark Garnier - Mine - Got re-elected despite taking 'gifts' (See: Bribes) from tobacco companies shortly before voting against the packaging reforms. Small fry, true but it's not what I'd like to see in an MP.

Peter Bone - Grandparent's - Got re-elected and has a brilliant track record of standing up for his constituent's interests and surprisingly for a backbencher turns up in parliament a hell of a lot <.<

The nasty party crap is indeed nothing better than the daily mail's ranting about everything from bottled water to carcinogenic oxygen, but there are still some legitimate and fairly serious concerns about the tories (Same for all really)

The preferred investor stuff is detailed in the link reasonably well, afaik the BIJ is independent enough for it to not be the usual slander and speculation that passes for news. lol.

More Than Mortal · May 15, 2015, 04:18:37 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 04:10:31 PM

afaik the BIJ is independent enough for it to not be the usual slander and speculation that passes for news. lol.

I fucking hope so. The election coverage--especially after the Tory win--has really turned me off mainstream media. I pretty much only read the Financial Times now.

Mr. Psychologist · May 15, 2015, 04:46:17 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on May 15, 2015, 04:18:37 PM

Quote from: Mr Psychologist on May 15, 2015, 04:10:31 PM
afaik the BIJ is independent enough for it to not be the usual slander and speculation that passes for news. lol.
I fucking hope so. The election coverage--especially after the Tory win--has really turned me off mainstream media. I pretty much only read the Financial Times now.

Yeah that's certainly understandable. I don't normally read much of the politics section though, BBC Headlines, Science and Technology + BPS fortnightly digest = my news <.<

Nascent Email · May 18, 2015, 12:12:08 PM

YouTube

Because it was mentioned.